Yeah, at a certain point the group classes stopped being useful. But I didn't need the private ones either, I had figured out how to self-improve by that point. I am not sure what exactly the secret is, I would very much like to be able to teach this skill.
Leaders. How was your Tango journey?
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Yeah, at a certain point the group classes stopped being useful. But I didn't need the private ones either, I had figured out how to self-improve by that point. I am not sure what exactly the secret is, I would very much like to be able to teach this skill.
opendoor
Forum Master
Congrats, Rabbit. I had to improve my movement quality in privates. I worked with my teacher on balance, consistency, isolation, and projection. These problems often are not visible in a group setting, but can be felt when there is physical contact in an embrace.
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opendoor
Forum Master
Who goes to BsA to learn and get better at tango? We have so many good teachers at home. In BsA everything gets lost in the hustle and bustle of that tourist circus.
A ton of people…pretty much every advanced dancer and current teacher I know have made multiple pilgrimages for this very reason. Although I guess in the past it was a much friendlier place to get actual dance training and less about the locals trying to extract as much money out of you, which makes sense since the economy wasn’t as bad as it’s been in the past decade or so.
TTanguero
Forum Master
Yeah, 100%. Everyone should go once, but I'd never go a second time.
Yeah I think it's more about the atmosphere, culture, history and live orchestras.
I'm just skeptical about the accessibility and effectiveness of the current conventional tango learning pathway. I think it's totally reasonable to complain about the expense of private lessons, travel etc... and I have not seen that anyone's dancing really gets transformed on that path, it is more like either you can dance from an early stage and just need to learn/practice the language, or you can't (and we don't know how to teach it, so let's fake it somehow.)
opendoor
Forum Master
Not for this very reason, for justification.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I rarely take private lessons, and even then only with professionals whom I have taken workshops with and respect their dance + want to learn enough from them.
Could I figure out the things I want to learn from them? Probably, with enough time and effort, at least for most of them. Privates are really a shortcut to obtaining this knowledge; I still have to put in the work to integrate it into my own body. And really, I see them as a way to obtain a different perspective on things.
I think the conventional tango learning pathway, as it is right now, is heavily geared towards profitability, so the vast majority of what is taught right now is meant to attract/retain students, NOT what is best for them. The days of three years of walking in practicas before being allowed to attend a milonga are long gone, and good riddance. But I'm irked that the beginners are not rigorously drilled in the basics of floorcraft before being let loose onto the pista.
I've taken like what, one or two privates in my whole life? Might take more; I don't think they have, or ever will, transform my dance that much. But I know that my greatest weakness is solipsism, even though it's entirely justified at least 95% of the time.
maybe not the advanced dancers…but some of the teachers I have — yes for this very reason in the 90s and 2000s. They basically had no job or quit their job to pursue to be a tango professional and traveled there for extended stays.
I mean one of the biggest advantages of having a consistent private teacher(s) is for them to point out blind spots in your dance that you wouldn’t be able to figure out yourself (unless you have a very advanced practice partner).I rarely take private lessons, and even then only with professionals whom I have taken workshops with and respect their dance + want to learn enough from them.
Could I figure out the things I want to learn from them? Probably, with enough time and effort, at least for most of them. Privates are really a shortcut to obtaining this knowledge; I still have to put in the work to integrate it into my own body. And really, I see them as a way to obtain a different perspective on things.
I think the conventional tango learning pathway, as it is right now, is heavily geared towards profitability, so the vast majority of what is taught right now is meant to attract/retain students, NOT what is best for them. The days of three years of walking in practicas before being allowed to attend a milonga are long gone, and good riddance. But I'm irked that the beginners are not rigorously drilled in the basics of floorcraft before being let loose onto the pista.
I've taken like what, one or two privates in my whole life? Might take more; I don't think they have, or ever will, transform my dance that much. But I know that my greatest weakness is solipsism, even though it's entirely justified at least 95% of the time.
There’s certain stuff you can work on by yourself and just practicing, i.e new movements, but even then you won’t know if you’re doing them the most effective way.
Most of the time a private isn’t going to completely change your dance unless the teacher says something that’s an epiphany to you, but even if they change it for the better just 0.5%, all those small incremental changes add up.
opendoor
Forum Master
Yes, that group exists, but I replied to those who only stay for three weeks. They are real tourists. The group you are talking about mixes with the natives. They build professional networks there.
I learnt these things in group setttings with multiple instructors. Sometimes these group classes or workshops have as little as three students. Average is about 10 students (5 pairs). That leaves good enough time to get personal attention. What I have disliked about classes or workshops is there are more leaders than the followers. In which case I prefer following than standing idle waiting for my turn in rotation. That’s one reason I rarely go to the classes.
There are some female instructors with whom I will not mind taking privates. But they are not local and will visit only a couple of time in a year.
Same here. I learnt self improve without needing privates or as many classes as average tango dancers take. But that has also meant that my vocabulary is limited and I also create vocabulary dynamically on the dance floor. I don’t find the limitations to hamper my dancing or musicality. For example I rarely rarely do gancho, though I can lead the usual one. Other example is volcada. Since I never mastered it, I never do it when dancing. In the class settings, I can do it very easily and I know the mechanics plus other details to make it work. However it is not a part of my muscle memory.
Almost everyone that I knows takes privates every day or every other day on their one week or two week trip to BsAs. They will also go to practicas and occasionally attend groups class at famous academies.
Yes dance 4-5 hours each night, sometimes at two milongas a night.
With most of them, I see no improvement in their dancing after they return from BsAs. Having taken privates, etc. Which to me indicates their inability to grasp necessary building blocks on which to build their dancing. Also they lack technical fundamentals. Despite them telling they worked on things in privates that I would recognize as fundamentals.
People who improve the most and become better dancers are those that know how to learn. They don’t need to go to BsAs. They have grown as a dancer locally.
Which reinforces my belief to a large set of people, dancing is just a set of movements. The quality of movement and applying it to express the music is something they can’t grasp and are incapable of.