Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[Bailango]

A ton of people…pretty much every advanced dancer and current teacher I know have made multiple pilgrimages for this very reason. Although I guess in the past it was a much friendlier place to get actual dance training and less about the locals trying to extract as much money out of you, which makes sense since the economy wasn’t as bad as it’s been in the past decade or so.

May be that was during the time when there weren’t enough local instructors to teach. Though I have never seen that.

Half the local instructors have moved from BsAs. A lot of big name instructors from BsAs will pass through then local scene few times a year. Every week we will have an average two set of instructors visiting from BsAs. Isn’t it the same in all other metros?

I think dancers who are advanced are good at learning and it is hard to say they got good because they learnt in BsAs. My guess is the ratio of advanced dancers to non-advanced dancers who go to BsAs regularly on annual pilgrimage is like 1:5 or 1:10? The fact that there are more non- advanced dancers who go to BsAs and take lessons but don’t get to advance level even after visiting it for 5 to 10 years is proof that it isn’t about BaAs. It is about capability of a person to learn.

 

[tangoing]

Yes, that group exists, but I replied to those who only stay for three weeks. They are real tourists. The group you are talking about mixes with the natives. They build professional networks there.

I have a friend who’s going there for a month soon on vacation, will be taking privates every day along with going to multiple milongas.
There’s many like her doing this.

I do something similar except I work remotely so for me it’s not pure tango, but one of the reasons I’m there is to better my tango + see the differences in dance there + connect with likeminded people.

 

[tangoing]

May be that was during the time when there weren’t enough local instructors to teach. Though I have never seen that.

Half the local instructors have moved from BsAs. A lot of big name instructors from BsAs will pass through then local scene few times a year. Every week we will have an average two set of instructors visiting from BsAs. Isn’t it the same in all other metros?

I think dancers who are advanced are good at learning and it is hard to say they got good because they learnt in BsAs. My guess is the ratio of advanced dancers to non-advanced dancers who go to BsAs regularly on annual pilgrimage is like 1:5 or 1:10? The fact that there are more non- advanced dancers who go to BsAs and take lessons but don’t get to advance level even after visiting it for 5 to 10 years is proof that it isn’t about BaAs. It is about capability of a person to learn.

I mean yeah it sorta was during that time, in the 90s there were very few instructors, one of my teachers being one of them after coming back in BA. It wasn’t until late 90s when there were broadway shows of tango that gave rise to an explosion of popularity.

I mean you have a point about those advanced dancers, but the counterpoint are non argentine teachers — all the ones I know have spent a lot of time in BA learning from Argentinians. Maybe it’s different in your city. Although not of lot of them go recently now, but they’ve been dancing 25+ years.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

well nyc museums are free for locals

the difference is you’re expected to pay a lot in nyc for everything and also it’s not some hidden thing

The museum thing is similar in foreign cities. Also, NYC museums are not free unless you mean the Met. Everyone pays for MoMA and the other private institutions.

 

[tangoing]

The museum thing is similar in foreign cities. Also, NYC museums are not free unless you mean the Met. Everyone pays for MoMA and the other private institutions.

They’re free on various specific days and hours

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Yeah, at a certain point the group classes stopped being useful. But I didn't need the private ones either, I had figured out how to self-improve by that point. I am not sure what exactly the secret is, I would very much like to be able to teach this skill.

It helps if you have charisma and a good sense of humor. Also helps to take classes with other teachers who are very good at being teachers.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Yeah I think it's more about the atmosphere, culture, history and live orchestras.

I'm just skeptical about the accessibility and effectiveness of the current conventional tango learning pathway. I think it's totally reasonable to complain about the expense of private lessons, travel etc... and I have not seen that anyone's dancing really gets transformed on that path, it is more like either you can dance from an early stage and just need to learn/practice the language, or you can't (and we don't know how to teach it, so let's fake it somehow.)

It seems to help beginning followers for some reason. I know two women who were beginners, not very good, then went to BsAs for a month, came back, and suddenly had a great abrazo and could follow pretty well. My underlying question though is: why couldn't they have gotten that here? Not sure the same would work for leaders though.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Most of the time a private isn’t going to completely change your dance unless the teacher says something that’s an epiphany to you, but even if they change it for the better just 0.5%, all those small incremental changes add up.

Even if they get you to make small adjustments, then can have a large effect on your dance. Another benefit of privates is that it can give you confidence.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Which reinforces my belief to a large set of people, dancing is just a set of movements. The quality of movement and applying it to express the music is something they can’t grasp and are incapable of.

Interesting point.

 

[Rabbit]

I mean one of the biggest advantages of having a consistent private teacher(s) is for them to point out blind spots in your dance that you wouldn’t be able to figure out yourself (unless you have a very advanced practice partner).

Well, thats the thing. I can figure them out, it is not rocket science. The proof is simply feedback from dance partners and observers. I am always puzzled when I ask someone "what did you learn from teacher X" and the answer is some technical point that should be basic and known to everyone.

I think one advantage of not relying on teachers is that I don't receive instructions to do things in a way that doesn't fit well with my own principles and framework of the dance

 

[tangoing]

Well, thats the thing. I can figure them out, it is not rocket science. The proof is simply feedback from dance partners and observers. I am always puzzled when I ask someone "what did you learn from teacher X" and the answer is some technical point that should be basic and known to everyone.

I think one advantage of not relying on teachers is that I don't receive instructions to do things in a way that doesn't fit well with my own principles and framework of the dance

It’s not rocket science but some things are sort of nuanced even though they sound simple.

Like being grounded.
Or the old saying of you must walk by pushing your feet off the ground.

There’s probably a handful of ways/explanations to achieve both those things, but it may not be immediately obvious.

For example one teacher’s exercise is to randomly walk around while im dancing and give me a tiny push around the waist/hip from any direction, and if i wasn’t grounded/stable i’d lose my balance/position.

Another teacher’s explanation is that my legs / posterior chain should always be activated. Like the moment before you jump you sort of brace your core and lower body, but obviously not as extreme for dancing but same concept.

There’s plenty more for every tango concept and even though those topics are often repeated it may be difficult to truly grasp on your own without guidance.

 

[Rabbit]

It helps if you have charisma and a good sense of humor. Also helps to take classes with other teachers who are very good at being teachers.

Oh i didn't refer to pedagogical technique generally, I'm quite aware that I'm relatively inexperienced at teaching but fortunately I have friends whom are professional educators that I can seek advice from. What I meant is I don't know how to teach some of the things that I can do myself.

 

[Rabbit]

It’s not rocket science but some things are sort of nuanced even though they sound simple.

Like being grounded.
Or the old saying of you must walk by pushing your feet off the ground.

There’s probably a handful of ways/explanations to achieve both those things, but it may not be immediately obvious.

So these are examples of what I consider basic technical points that:

1) the details of what these concepts mean and what exercises one should do to improve them should be freely available information

2) if you have good body awareness you can figure it out

3) often it is not that the student isn't aware that they should be doing something or physically capable of doing it, but they're not paying attention to it because muscle memory isn't established and they are concentrating on something else. In this case their practice routine probably could be more effective

 

[TTanguero]

So these are examples of what I consider basic technical points

I think for me they are good examples of things we need to periodically revisit. We get them at one level, implement them at that level, and then later we realise there's a whole new way to understand it, and acting on that new understanding is a very different experience. Repeat periodically.

Like Gavito, asked a few years before his death what he was currently working on and replying "my walk."

 

[TTanguero]

I think for me they are good examples of things we need to periodically revisit. We get them at one level, implement them at that level, and then later we realise there's a whole new way to understand it, and acting on that new understanding is a very different experience. Repeat periodically.

Like Gavito, asked a few years before his death what he was currently working on and replying "my walk."