Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[tangoing]

but people are able to train these in group classes for other disciplines, so tango classes are doing something wrong here

It can happen in intermediate/advanced classes with good teachers who aren’t just doing the sequence of the week approach (or if they are, focusing on the main movement of that sequence)

 

[opendoor]

..but people are able to train these in group classes for other disciplines, so tango classes are doing something wrong here

Only in standard BR they teach it to learn the quite demanding frame closed at hip height. In tango, you learn posture and movement quality not for yourself, but so that it feels comfortable and healthy for your dance partner. That's the difference to other dances. In lindy hop, you simply dance in a sloppy manner. In salsa, there's very little close embrace. Only in sensual bachata do posture and movement quality matter again.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

but people are able to train these in group classes for other disciplines, so tango classes are doing something wrong here

"quality of movement" can be difficult to teach for both sides of the embrace.

 

[brujo]

I will have to go to various different group classes and practicalongas if I have to get familiar with the current generation of tango dancers in our scene. Yes what you say works. But it is not sustainable. The classes are hit and miss. Most will be leader heavy. There is no guarantee that it will more than 5 to 6 couples.

You don’t necessarily need to only meet the followers. As a beginner lead swapping roles has been super helpful and a lot of times the people that usually lead will have more honest feedback than follows or tips on how to make things better. I’ve also introduced a ton of my friends from closer communities to the leaders that are really good when they come to town. When there is nobody to dance with, you also have other folks to commiserate with. They’ll also point out leaders to watch on the dance floor to get better.

 

[arrowofsky]

You don’t necessarily need to only meet the followers. As a beginner lead swapping roles has been super helpful and a lot of times the people that usually lead will have more honest feedback than follows or tips on how to make things better. I’ve also introduced a ton of my friends from closer communities to the leaders that are really good when they come to town. When there is nobody to dance with, you also have other folks to commiserate with. They’ll also point out leaders to watch on the dance floor to get better.

Lead swapping is really critical. Indeed, the leads should now how it feels to follow, as well. This results in more emphatic and accurate lead attempts.

 

[Bailango]

Only in sensual bachata do posture and movement quality matter again.

Haha!! That cracked me up.

 

[Bailango]

You don’t necessarily need to only meet the followers. As a beginner lead swapping roles has been super helpful and a lot of times the people that usually lead will have more honest feedback than follows or tips on how to make things better. I’ve also introduced a ton of my friends from closer communities to the leaders that are really good when they come to town. When there is nobody to dance with, you also have other folks to commiserate with. They’ll also point out leaders to watch on the dance floor to get better.

I am scratching my head on what this has to do with my quoted post.

 

[Paja]

Haha!! That cracked me up.

I have you bee dancing Bachata Sensual. It is my second one favourite dance after AT and third one is Salsa. For me it is big advance to have knowledge of biomechanics principles and how embrace, posture, balance, plus ability to improvise. In fact, I am visiting Latino parties almost every weekend and when I am sitting, ladies are asking me for dance, even I am 54, sometimes generation older then dancers.

 

[Bailango]

For me it is big advance to have knowledge of biomechanics principles and how embrace, posture, balance, plus ability to improvise.

Yes, this applies to all dances. Bachata Sensual community is bereft of these elements. It is hard for me to say which is worse in these - fusion/blue community or bachata sensual community. I think I will select the latter because of its absolutely crappy music that the DJs create and play. Which the Bachata Sensual apologists also hardly bother to defend. I think it is the only social partner dancing community that dances to DJ created remixed music.

Bachata Sensual a cultural appropriation (by Europeans) of Bachata dancing and music which is a tradition of Dominican Republic. There is nothing common other than the label “bachata”. Try dancing Bachata with Bachata Sensual follower and they are at lost. There are many anecodotes reported online that of Bachata Sensual followers telling a Bachata leader that it is not bachata or not knowing how to dance bachata that is not sensual.

I don’t know any follower over 40 who dances bachata sensual. It might be very popular in certain parts (Europe and South Korea particularly), but if you want a good amusement while being tortured by the music go watch bachata sensual dance floor

 

[opendoor]

..hard for me to say which is worse ..fusion/blues community or bachata sensual community. I think I will select the latter because of its absolutely crappy music that..

However, our context is "quality of movement," and in no other group class, definitely not in tango lessons, did a teacher teach me such a complex, demanding movement like body rolls, using anatomical terminology.

You may still linger in the era when bachata was still a despised appendage of salsa. Nowadays, bachata no longer has anything to do with salsa; the two scenes are sharply separated. And bachata sensual usually is not taught by latino teachers, as dominicana still is. Though mostly under 40, bachata is fueled from BR, WCS and Zouk. And the Zouk community again is separated from the Kizomba crowd.

 

[Pharaoh]

Well, i do dance salsa and bachata. However, in my city, most of the salsa and bachata dancers are people that are less than 40 years of age. Women above 40 don’t like sensual moves. In an any case, i found sensual moves hard to lead. Most of my bachata is salsa based. Anyway, i am aging out of salsa and bachata scene. However, once i tried tango, i was just blown away. It is so internally and emotionally powerful, like a drug. I can’t get that feeling with salsa and bachata. After tango, those dances just seem empty for me. I treat them like a cardio workout.

 

[Bailango]

However, our context is "quality of movement," and in no other group class, definitely not in tango lessons, did a teacher teach me such a complex, demanding movement like body rolls, using anatomical terminology.

Sensual didn’t invent body rolls. They have been used in different solo and partner dances for decades. Sensual employs them in mindless overdrive. As does Zouk.

There are a number of non-sensual instructors from other dances that can teach you a body roll. I don’t consider body roll a demanding or complex movement.

95% of the sensual dancers display horrible quality of movement.

Of all partner dances for social dancing, on an average the Tango instructors are better at teaching quality of movement. The salsa and bachata are at the bottom. The sensual are a rung below them.

You may still linger in the era when bachata was still a despised appendage of salsa.

I was the part of group that pioneered giving bachata its own space, separate from salsa.

Nowadays, bachata no longer has anything to do with salsa; the two scenes are sharply separated.

Yes and it all started around 2008. J

And bachata sensual usually

It was invented in early 2010s in Spain and became popular in Europe. It isn’t as popular in the USA. The quality of music is worst of all dances in sensual.

Though mostly under 40, bachata is fueled from BR, WCS and Zouk.

Sensual. Not bachata. Please use correct label. There is zero ballroom in bachata sensual. Most of it is borrowed from Zouk and salsa stage moves. Not a single movement in sensual it original to it. The movements existed in other dances prior to emergence of sensual style of dancing.

And the Zouk community again is separated from the Kizomba crowd.

Let’s not confuse Zouk and Kizomba unnecessarily.

 

[opendoor]

Sensual didn’t invent body rolls..

I first learned them in sensual classes. I used to take a zouk class, but I dropped out long before it got to the body rolls.

Of all partner dances for social dancing, on an average the Tango instructors are better at teaching quality of movement..

I don't want to dispute that. However, in my experience, they demonstrate their competence in private lessons, but not in group classes.

I was the part of group that pioneered giving bachata its own space, separate from salsa.. it all started around 2008..

Wow, that's interesting! I only got into sensual because the tango scene ceased during the pandemic.

Sensual. Not bachata. Please use correct label..

My wording is the other way around. I need the qualifier "dominicana" to designate the authentic version. Only in the last two years have I noticed a dedicated dominicana scene in my area.

There is zero ballroom in bachata sensual..

I never claimed that. I mentioned that the influx of new students comes primarily from the ballroom scene, not from salsa. The ballroom scene in northern europe was also the first to offer WCS. These ballroom westies then also popularized zouk. Here, zouk was an absolutely new creation without substantial contact with the brazilian or lusitanian communities.

Let’s not confuse Zouk and Kizomba unnecessarily.

Never did so. There's a long-established kizomba scene among angolese immigrants in my city. They stayed among themselves. However, many local followers who failed in ballroom, salsa or other partner dances find refuge in the kizomba scene.

What you didn't mention is that forró is currently taking off. And it's interesting that brazilians and native locals mingle there. This dance is simply fun. When I'm looking for a bit of a tropical flair on cozy summer evenings: I also dance there.

 

[Miradamiranda]

My experience with zouk started and ended in 2009 when I was living in Australia. There, the Brazilian community is huge. I was only interested in salsa at that time. Zouk played the role of ‘it’s time to go get a drink’ just like bachata did for me back in the US. If pressed, I’d dance a bachata or two, but I didn’t care much for it. A decade later (edit: the math didn’t add up, so I had to think back more precisely, maybe around 2014-16) , I noticed both Kizomba and sensual bachata take off in my small town scene. Then I cared even less for bachata, because I did old school Dominican (but basic). Around that time I had also pivoted completely to tango and stopped going to salsa events (around 2016-2018 or so).

However, in my city, most of the salsa and bachata dancers are people that are less than 40 years of age. Women above 40 don’t like sensual moves. In an any case, i found sensual moves hard to lead. Most of my bachata is salsa based. Anyway, i am aging out of salsa and bachata scene. However, once i tried tango, i was just blown away. It is so internally and emotionally powerful, like a drug. I can’t get that feeling with salsa and bachata.

It’s not that us 40+ don’t like sensual moves, we just don’t care for the type of sensual bachata. I can do some mean body rolls in the context of salsa. The rest of your statement that I’m quoting here. I agree with / can relate to.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Btw, a big part of the reason neither bachata, zouk, nor Kizomba interested me was the music that I couldn’t care less about.