Light vs. Heavy Connection

[Hedwaite]

It depends on what kind of vibe I feel from the person asking me. Also, if you're from this forum, I would politely decline a dance and spare you the horror of my frontness touching your frontness.

 

[vit]

Now I see original question was actually about the strength of the body contact (some replies including mine were about the strength of the leading). I mostly prefer whether light contact whether no contact, depending on the person I'm dancing with - giving more freedom - even in dances danced in salsa community that are usually danced with much contact (bachata, recently kizomba, brazilian zouk ...). Sometimes more contact works better, if frame of the person I'm dancing with isn't good, but in that case many other things are also wrong, and with some followers, it's somehow more comfortable dancing with more contact ... so again, no universal rule ...

 

[Lioness]

I like a good, solid, firm...connection.

I want to be able to stay connected and feel the strength of the lead. Too light of a connection can be quite hard to follow, as our top line tends to waver a little.

When I dance with coach, I have no problems with a lighter connection, as his frame is really solid.

 

[chomsky]

Body connection, or body contact? I prefer a strong body connection and light body contact.

Could you elaborate on this so that I get it?

 

[vit]

I suppose it means strong connection through arms and strong frame, but not much actual pressure one body against other at the point of contact

 

[samina]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately, because I have a salsa instructor whose presence I can hardly feel, an approach I don't like. When I give more energy looking for him to "match" me, he calls it "tension", but that's not what it is. Am pretty sure he's a member of the "negative pressure" dance connection club, whereas in both my Latin & my Standard training, I've been consistently taught with the "positive pressure" approach.

I want to feel my partner and where he is. When I can't feel him because he has drawn away or moved, I know it's time for me to move...or to "give" more.

Interestingly, the last salsa class I took in this group, one of the leaders said to me, "I like dancing with you. I can *feel* you." That's what I'm after.

ETA: I'm wondering if, amongst the other Latin & Standard dancers here, there are those who dance using the negative pressure approach.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

the answer is neither

connection can be measured from -10 to +10 ala toni red path you often need connections from +5 to +10 and -5 to -10 especially in competitive dancing

 

[samina]

the answer is neither

connection can be measured from -10 to +10 ala toni red path you often need connections from +5 to +10 and -5 to -10 especially in competitive dancing

Do you mean you follow neither a negative pressure nor a positive pressure approach, or are you responding to someone else's comment?

What you are describing sounds to me like the actual sense of "aliveness" and constant adjustment that occurs in a flexible, breathing connection.

 

[vit]

I'm not sure are you talking about the same thing, but here is my opinion

In standard and latin, I've been also constantly taught with something that could be described as "positive pressure approach". I mean, when dancing standard, both partners are slightly pushing against each other. This is probably slightly different from couple to couple (more or less "pressure", more in body or more in arms etc) but I certainly don't like a follower pulling me instead of slightly resisting me, as I'm falling to my nose

Latin is giving more freedom, so probably range from -10 to +10 is used, but average during whole dance is also positive I think

Dance significantly different is West coast swing, where this average is surely negative - leading is significantly different than in ballroom, at least in a form that was presented to me (which I believe is correct, after dancing with some people outside my country) and is mostly based on "pulling" - which is also the reason (or at least one of) of back poise in the dance. When started learning it about a year ago, it required some reprogramming in my head, after doing these things ballroom way for more than two decades

Now, there are two main kinds of salsa - cuban and linear. Cuban salsa generally has some similarities with latin in a way of leading and even structure of some basic figures, as latin is also based on ideas taken from son, danzon etc. Linear salsa has some influences of other dances, including WCS which gave (I suppose) the form of dancing in slots. As about the connection, nobody explained these things to me on the classes, but after starting learning WCS, I started noticing that many dancers are using similar, dominantly pull type approach. We had recently some discussions about that in SF. It turned out that many salseros still believe in similar roots like in latin - weight/stepping over toes, cuban movement etc, but in reality, linear salsa frequently turns into somewhat backpoised, swing type of dance, with usage of the heels, not much cuban movement etc - this is however different depending on the area/style etc ...

 

[madmaximus]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately, because I have a salsa instructor whose presence I can hardly feel, an approach I don't like. When I give more energy looking for him to "match" me, he calls it "tension", but that's not what it is. Am pretty sure he's a member of the "negative pressure" dance connection club, whereas in both my Latin & my Standard training, I've been consistently taught with the "positive pressure" approach.

I want to feel my partner and where he is. When I can't feel him because he has drawn away or moved, I know it's time for me to move...or to "give" more.

Interestingly, the last salsa class I took in this group, one of the leaders said to me, "I like dancing with you. I can *feel* you." That's what I'm after.

ETA: I'm wondering if, amongst the other Latin & Standard dancers here, there are those who dance using the negative pressure approach.

IMO
With very few exceptions, nothing in dance should be constant---it is, after all, an art form based on movement.

Positive and negative tension, connection, pressure, "aliveness", light, shade, space, you-name-your-favorite-here, should happen ONLY because there is a functional or mechanical need that demands its existence and amount (such as a counter-"energy" that might give you enough momentum to generate speed, or help you arrest your momentum to slow down).

Positive or negative "whatever" in-of-itself, that simply exists because of some dogma, philosophy, personal preference, or school of thought (without regard for its usefulness) is a waste of energy.

Body contact, is a good example.
It may be lighter when you are traversing a straight line, and might be heavier if you're creating pendular movement or helping your partner on a picture line---or it might even be negative, as when you create a space that you want your partner to occupy.





m

 

[samina]

But it seems to me that the fact there are different paradigms is a valid thing to be aware of, since they inform the "language" that dancers are seeking to exchange with their partners.

I know that those who seek a marked response are quick to say "Where are you? Give me more!", whereas those who have not been trained to look for that response immediately want less presence. It's come up a lot for me -- noticeably when I leave the Standard/Latin world and jump to the Salsa/Hustle/WCS world.

I just adapt as much as I can. It helps to at least know that not everyone is coming at this from the same perspective.

 

[nikkitta]

"I like dancing with you. I can *feel* you."

Yup, the magic balance between feeling practically nothing (and thus getting no physical feedback) and feeling suffocated and unable to move independently unless "allowed" to by the leader. I abhor being suffocated. That's not a partnership. That's a dictatorship.

I agree it ideally should be a constantly evolving connection dependent on what is being danced and the presence (or not) of pre-existing forces from prior movement.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Could you elaborate on this so that I get it?

Maybe this will help. You can have a strong body connection in latin or rhythm, with the lead coming from the body, and being followed with the body, without any direct body contact at all. This is different from leading with the arms, though in latin and rhythm, the contact points would be the same. Connection and contact are not that closely related.

 

[Hedwaite]

Someone mentioned the difference between contact and connection, which is interesting. I believe you can have connection with a partner without contact (eye contact, following visible body leads, etc.) but it's difficult to have contact without what I would consider a "positve" or "relevant" connection. So to me, connection is more important than contact, if that makes sense.

 

[Janson]

Ballroom seems very dependent on balancing each other with the partners weight and so a strong connection is surely needed there, although more recently I've heard the arms/frame should be light and hardly applying any force - I suppose this makes the body connection more prominent and efficient.
Latin, I prefer a 'heavier' connection as I can always apply a bit more force in return to go through the leads - but there's nothing I can do if there isn't enough pressure to start with.