Light vs. Heavy Connection

[Steve Pastor]

Wasn't going to comment since to OP was regarding standard, but now...

WCS which gave (I suppose) the form of dancing in slots

Let's just say, I'd think not, since one of the first written descriptions of Western Swing/West Coast Swing is dated 1953 (although that is listed as "revised" the earlier one has no date.)
Hope TangoTime comments on early forms of rumba which date from the 30s in the US. "Smooth swing" in Los Angeles dates from the early 40s, and may or may not be WCS.
And, WCS ideally has an "away pressure" at the conclusion of an anchor step, followed by the "pull" of movement from the man's "center" immediately following the anchor.

 

[DanceMentor]

My personal view is there truly are multiple ways of thinking about it that can be successful. Overly focusing on one area can also have its pitfalls. However, you have to spend time developing your "tools", and increasingly you can solve problems more quickly.

 

[Hedwaite]

I disagree somewhat on WCS away pressure concept, from a follow perspective at least. To feel "away" pressure, you have to be "toward" the force as the follow, at least. It's like (edit- yes, I'm aware that WCS and IS are two different styles, but sometimes reminiscent concepts) Karen Hilton/Toni Redpath always discussing "dancing forward" (in standard), or other people say to "dance your quicks as though they were slow and let the leader determine the rhythm" in Latin/Rhythm dances.

Nah, not really. I just like to see other explanations/elaborations on things because it all just makes dancing more interesting to think about as well as do.

(Not that it did much better the second time, but edits throughout for clarity)

 

[DanceMentor]

Thinking too much of "away" pressure can have an impact on the couple staying together, and of course we have to think about which part is "away" and when. Then of course there is rotation involved, so what direction is "away"?

Also, in having a more holistic approach, the whole body is moving. Often thinking "toward" or "away" can end up being too specific about a body part. For example, we are thinking about hands, but maybe not enough about the feet.

 

[Egorich]

Just like a four-legged animal, creating unity in movement.
I personally use the term of "controlled directional gravity" by applying natural body weight pressure towards your partner, enabling firm body contact. Directional responsiveness of your partner then will confirm as connection.

 

[madmaximus]

But it seems to me that the fact there are different paradigms is a valid thing to be aware of, since they inform the "language" that dancers are seeking to exchange with their partners.

I know that those who seek a marked response are quick to say "Where are you? Give me more!", whereas those who have not been trained to look for that response immediately want less presence. It's come up a lot for me -- noticeably when I leave the Standard/Latin world and jump to the Salsa/Hustle/WCS world.

I just adapt as much as I can. It helps to at least know that not everyone is coming at this from the same perspective.

There are many ways to write the letter "A".

Some ways it may be very basic, as the halting penmanship of a 4 year old child, or the elegant and practiced hand of an adult, or beautifully sublime as one would expect from a master calligrapher.

Regardless of how you write it, the fundamental shape of the letter "A" would still be the same.

The same is true in dance---whatever the style (Modern, Latin, Social, AT, etc)

Whatever the fundamental principle element involved might be---it will always apply no matter what one does.

Like an expert calligrapher, you can embellish, modify, push, or extend the fundamental principle (such as level of tensioning) so much so that it spins-off into different paradigms or schools---and is perfectly valid and often times necessary.

The existence of such variation, however, does not invalidate the fundamental element/principle.

The problem comes in when we start to define the variation as the fundamental element, rather than a derivation.







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[Hedwaite]

Sometimes, you just gotta STFUAD.

 

[cornutt]

Ballroom seems very dependent on balancing each other with the partners weight and so a strong connection is surely needed there, although more recently I've heard the arms/frame should be light and hardly applying any force - I suppose this makes the body connection more prominent and efficient.

To put this together with what nikkitta said, I think this is one reason that body contact is so important in standard/smooth -- so that the frame leaves space for the follow to move. Yes, you can dance these dances without body contact, but it's a lot harder to do so without a confining frame. (Hence, all of the shoulders-and-arms torture devices that we inflict on standard/smooth newbies.) With a good body connection, I always feel like it's easier for me to communicate the lead since I don't have to apply force or leverage through my shoulders.

 

[samina]

I don't think it is as esoteric and conceptually complex as the direction of this thread is taking this topic. Speaking as a follow who reduces my following sensibilities to very simple concepts in the moment (Give, Wait, Go, More, Move), all this talk about percentages and conceptual variabilities seems more theoretical than applicable, to me.

But the "positive pressure" rule is definitely a framework I feel has worked IME, and in which a full range of variability can find expression. I don't understand how a negative pressure paradigm would work in Standard or Latin.

 

[vit]

I think that type of connection is integral part of the genre/style, so changing this wouldn't work or would change the appearance of the dance

Social dancing like WCS and salsa requires different set of skills than dancing prepared routines anyway

 

[Steve Pastor]

Here is SKippy Blair on WCS anchors.

An ANCHOR is an “away” connection from one partner’s center (CPB) to the other partner’s center. It can easily be achieved by both partners placing their Center Point of Balance (CPB) BEHIND the heel of their forward foot. This strengthens the partner connection at the point where the anchor takes place. This also alerts each partner that they have completed what they intended and are now ready to move on.
So, she uses the word connection, rather than pressure.
The WCS anchor is a rather special case. That "away" pressure" shows up mostly at slower speeds when dancing to something like the song "Steam." The lack of the awayness is quite noticeable if it's not there. When it is there, there is a definate feeling of resistance and stretching when the man starts back on the next step.

We feel the same awayness when doing colgadas in Argentine Tango, or when doing single axis turns, or, really, in a fast waltz. I can get it in a CW two step, too. In these examples it's a result of centrifugal force from the rotation.

 

[samina]

I think that type of connection is integral part of the genre/style, so changing this wouldn't work or would change the appearance of the dance

Social dancing like WCS and salsa requires different set of skills than dancing prepared routines anyway

Yes, but just to be clear...I'm not talking about Standard or Latin in the context of routines. I mean lead-and-follow connections. Just FTR.

 

[vit]

I understand. I was actually referring to the your salsa class, where you liked a way how one guy was leading you and didn't like the other guy. Although some salsa dancers are indeed technically very good - it is still social dancing, variety of "personal styles" and range of technical level is much wider, requiring much wider range of adaptation from both leader and follower side in order to enjoy the dance, including connection. There is always (or there should be) a kind of "connection negotiation" at the beginning of the dance, especially if it is a person you never danced with (or at least didn't dance for a while). You need a time for this skill to develop, like you need a time to improve your technique in ballroom. The same for WCS. In choreographed dancing, it's different - you have your regular partner, you have a tryout, you see can you make a good couple, otherwise you try to find someone else etc.

 

[samina]

I'm also remembering how I've successfully followed hustle/WCS/salsa with barely touching fingers, and even experimentally without touch. I think you're right, vit - there is a divide between the requirements for those styles and S & L styles, where that would be highly impractical.

 

[Dr Dance]

Light enough not to interfere with my own balance. But "heavy" enough to feel my partner.