Listening to music to improve dancing skill

Argentine Tango music is completely different from other forms of dance music.
Agreed.
...Cha Cha is 2-3-4&1. AT music doesn't have a repetitive cadence.. Every orquesta typica sounds different.. DiSarli.. Pugliese..
I'm not on board with this anymore. Similar to the argentine tango of the 1930s and 1940s, there also was a craze in mambo and cha cha chá (which is a slow mambo) and an overwhelming variety of orchestras and stylistic variations in Cuba and the US. I collect shellac records and know this. That's why I don't like the fact that you elevate tango above other musical forms.
 
DiSarli is probably the most emotional orquestra. Pugliese is well known for his heavy pounding, like La Yumba.
That's an ... interesting take!
3 years of piano lessons in high school where I learned the difference between notes and beats. (They aren't the same.)
Does anyone who has ever listened to music think notes and beats are the same?!
Leaders have to fit figures to the music, like jigsaw puzzle pieces smoothly entered into the puzzle.
To me, fitting figures to music is a useful shortcut when you're new to tango, but as soon as you are truly able to improvise, you can more-or-less forget the concept of figures.
 
I see how Tango is different from Ballroom music. Is Tango still a different thing, or would you say Blues music (Blues Dancing) and music for Swing Dancing is similarly complicated?
Swing has an established cadence of 1&2, 3&4,5-6. I don't dance Blues, but I dance West Coast Swing which has an established cadence. But because it's slow, there are opportunities to play with the music.
 
It may be different but when it comes to degree of understanding music, the salsa music is more difficult. So if your point is about difficulty of music and dancing to it, tango is a difficult dance to less difficult music. Salsa is simpler dance to more difficult music.




Count what? You can dance without counting.

I can’t speak for you and the others. For myself I don’t agree. I am still not familiar with orchestras. I might be familiar with some music but if you ask me which orchestra it belongs or what is the name of the tango song, I am likely to draw black. Because I didn’t put any effort into it. I know it is a tradition among tango dancers to learn their orchestra etc. However I haven’t found correlation between musical dancers and encyclopedic knowledge of orchestra. It may be necessary to DJ but I don’t DJ.

When we dance and we want to be musical, we wish to express the emotion of the music as we perceive it. The emotion can relate to rhythm, melody, etc.

We all learn and pick up things differently. Musicality as understood by a musician is different than musicality that a dancer needs to express. Because dancer has to use movement and coordinate it with a partner to express musicality. That requires accommodating to the partner. Otherwise I can go solo dancing to EDM at a night club very musically. Or I can also dance alone to Tango music and express my musicality. But tango that we enjoy is a partner dance.


It is interesting for sake of curiosity. I have tried to learn about music theory. About beats, notes, scales, tonality, harmony, polyrhythm etc on my own. I doubt I grasped more than 10% to 20% of it because I did it in my free time. Not as a rigorous study.

I don’t know what you mean by understanding music. But you can teach beginner dancers how to dance to the music without having to understand musical structure. You can focus on a few things in music that standout louder like accents, etc.

I have seen it done in beginner classes and it does work.

So no, if you are a dancer you don’t need to understand music. You need to understand movement. You need to understand mapping movement to what you hear. You need to understand movement when there is another person right infront of you.




There is definite way in which jigsaw puzzle pieces fit. There are infinite ways to fit a movement to a passage of music. Whether you choreograph is dynamically on the spot (improvisation) or you program it before, you are still trying to fit a sequence of movements (figures) to the music.

Let’s leave apart those who don’t try and are only executing movements irrespective of the music. Among those are many who understand music. But as I said there is no correlation when it comes to dancing.
These two tangos don't sound similar. Would you dance them the same way?
Donato: Sin Sabor Pugliese: La Yumba
If you can't feel the downbeat, I don't understand how you can be in sync with the music.
 
..you dance them the same way?
I have never questioned the richness and diversity of Argentine tango. The criticism is directed only at the fact that, in your disparagement of fox trot and cha cha, you refer to the mutilated versions used in ballroom dancing. However, both musical styles exhibit a comparable richness to tango in the real world.
 
It is not important to know name of orchestra, important is to recognize song and to decide what to dance to this song, with considering level of your partner. Examples of different music: Pugliese - Canaro en Paris, Troilo - Malena, Gardel - Por una cabeza, Gotan - Santa Maria del Buen Aire. If you are familiar with these songs, or even you love these song (as I love, but not only these of course), you are like ship captain with MAP. You can sail with PLAN. If you cannot recognize the song, you are sailing over unknown water, even best captain then can only react to immediate situation. This is why I reccomend to listen music.
 
That's an ... interesting take!

Does anyone who has ever listened to music think notes and beats are the same?!
I think a lot of dancers don't know the difference. I stopped counting the number of times somebody has said "Milonga it too fast" because they think they have to step on every note.
 
I think a lot of dancers don't know the difference. I stopped counting the number of times somebody has said "Milonga it too fast" because they think they have to step on every note.
I think they think they have to step on every beat, not that they think notes and beats are the same thing.
 
..If you are familiar with these songs... you are like ship captain with MAP. You can sail with PLAN.
I wouldn't call that improvisation anymore, but rather the dictate of your roadmap. Your form of the day, your experiences, the greeting from the dancers, the DJ's preceding music selection, the partner in your arms—all of this influences how you hear and feel music. If you ignore that, you're putting the music's fullness through a compressor. Also the situation on the floor also determines how you can physically translate the music. What do you do at passages where you normally stride, but the ronda stands still? What do you do in the cadenced passages at the end, where everyone doubles and does giros?

I advocate letting the music guide you! Sometimes it will be a good interpretation, sometimes a bad one.
If you cannot recognize the song, you are sailing over unknown water, even best captain then can only react to immediate situation..
But that's the only way the captain can find dreamy islands and pristine beaches. Only so can those moments emerge on the dance floor that never will be forgotten. (But as mentioned above, it can also just be boring.) Try to control less and report your experiences here.
 
I wouldn't call that improvisation anymore, but rather the dictate of your roadmap. Your form of the day, your experiences, the greeting from the dancers, the DJ's preceding music selection, the partner in your arms—all of this influences how you hear and feel music. If you ignore that, you're putting the music's fullness through a compressor. Also the situation on the floor also determines how you can physically translate the music. What do you do at passages where you normally stride, but the ronda stands still? What do you do in the cadenced passages at the end, where everyone doubles and does giros?

I advocate letting the music guide you! Sometimes it will be a good interpretation, sometimes a bad one.

But that's the only way the captain can find dreamy islands and pristine beaches. Only so can those moments emerge on the dance floor that never will be forgotten. (But as mentioned above, it can also just be boring.) Try to control less and report your experiences here.
You also need radar to dance well.
 
If you cannot recognize the song, you are sailing over unknown water, even best captain then can only react to immediate situation.
Everyone is jumping on this sailing reference, huh... :)
My take: dancing to unfamiliar music trains you to adapt to when the wind shifts direction. If you only dance to music you know well, it’s like expecting the wind to always be predictable.
Allow yourself to be carried by the winds.
 
Also the situation on the floor also determines how you can physically translate the music. What do you do at passages where you normally stride, but the ronda stands still?

yeah, I remember asking teachers this in my first year and none of them were able to give a satisfactory answer. One possible substitution is sacadas for power walks

What do you do in the cadenced passages at the end, where everyone doubles and does giros?

d'Arienzo was a showoff and I think there he would have wanted us to show off too.
 

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