Looking at cleavage

[LatinDancer006]

We have a deal.

Gotta tell you though, I get the better end of that deal.

Actually, I think there is some validity in this statement due to the fact that sex for women is more invasive.

However, I also agree that objectification can be de-humanizing to the person being objectified regardless of gender.

 

[DWise1]

I'm sure that they do but they're less uptight about it. The taboos in this country confuse me and I grew up here. :shock: Show someone getting cut in half or dismembered on TV - no problem. Show a naked breast - oh no it's the end of the world.:headwall:

Germany in the mid 70's was a bit of a culture shock in that respect. As here, at the grocery checkout magazines would be on display. Family magazines which typically had a fully nude girl on the cover. One family magazine would feature men from different countries, with full frontal nudity. I didn't get to watch much TV when I was there, so I didn't get any feel for that.

Though speaking of American TV, do you remember Barbara Eden's costume in I Dream of Jeannie? Censors required them to cover her navel, so it had a flap added to the waistband; (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058815/trivia):

According to Barbara Eden, network executives and censors were unconcerned about her navel being seen until someone casually mentioned during the third season that it was occasionally visible when the waistband of her costume shifted. After that her navel was required to be covered.

In The Making of Star Trek (circa 1968), costume designer William Theiss mentioned that it was absolutely forbidden for any part of the bottom of a breast to be visible, such that the censors seemed obsessive about it. He also worked on the second series, Star Trek The Next Generation. In the second episode (The Naked Now) in the scene where Tasha Yar seduces Data, I couldn't help but notice that her costume exposed the bottoms of her breasts; that episode should have titled The Revenge of Bill Theiss. I don't know whether he had any hand in designing the female Klingon costumes that featured middle cleavage.

Q'pla!

 

[PretzelsAndBeer]

Bingo! I called it! :applause: to me.

Since I've added a couple of wise-arse remarks to this thread, now I'll try to make a more meaningful contribution.

Most men (not all) probably don't mind being ogled a little by a lady. I don't. Well, I mean if it ever happened I probably wouldn't mind.

But it's undeniable that men and women are different. I don't think looking a little is shameful, especially if the girls are on display, but courtesy and respect is called for. Gazing down when you're dancing, or even more so when you're having a conversation, is just piggish. I admit to being somewhat flawed in that respect but I try to treat people decently.

One more point, in my humble but infallible opinion beauty can't be reduced to one physical feature. It's the full integrated physical appearance plus non-physical things such as gracefulness, attitude, and intelligence. My point is that fixating on just one thing (or a pair) may be enjoyable but it misses most of the experience.

 

[englezul]

Well... that's great if it is really that simple for you!

Though, the problem which I face, is that I hate being so objectified by men staring at my breasts... but men (generally I think) would love if a women stared at his crotch is feeds his masculinity (sorry I can't spell). Men would be like "swwwwweeeeeeeeeeeet... she's totally checking out my package... ya want some of this?????". Or men, would you like or dislike a women checking out your package? (I'd like to guess the majority would love it).

Lol, do you actually think that?

There's a saying: Men want a woman who is a lady on the street, a chef in the kitchen, and a whore in the bedroom.

Freud was also saying that men face the distinct problem of not being able to feel both romantic love and lust for the same woman. Because the 'animalistic nature' of great sex goes against the image of an innocent, pure woman that they respect.

So I don't feel anyone except for some percentage of tools feel anything but contempt when that happens.

 

[vmec]

^ I'm totally confused by your post.

Do you mean do I actually think men like when women ogle them? Yes, I do. This has already been confirmed twice. Of course there are exceptions.

Was I exaggerating with my "sweeeeet....." comment? yes, but that was just to get my point across.

 

[fascination]

well...ahem....twice doesn't exactly make a universal sample...and again...IMO, and only IMO, I think most people like the notion of being ogled and even like to catch someone trying NOT to ogle them...but, circumstances have to be just right for most folks to be flat out appreciative of overt ogling

 

[vmec]

^ Again I'm only simplifying. Sure making generalizations is not always a great way to reason but it does help to understand life and the dynamics within it.

And you're also generalizing your own opinion which I agree with that most people like the notion of being appriciated within reason, which is paralell with what I've been saying all along.

 

[fascination]

and for my part I think it is always best to state those things as being clearly limited in each post that I make so as not to incite the ire of folks who would otherwise possibly, and justifiably be offended...it is a good way to navigate an internet site amicably...that is all

 

[fascination]

and now, BOT, that is one of the nice advantages of preferring the rear view...one is not noticed when they are ogling unless someone rats on them....

 

[LatinDancer006]

Sorry I kind of got lost along the way. Let me get this straight. Vmec, are you saying that you like the attention on some level, but not to the extent of the overt ogling. Or are you saying that you don't like the attention of that sort at all?

 

[vmec]

Sorry I kind of got lost along the way. Let me get this straight. Vmec, are you saying that you like the attention on some level, but not to the extent of the overt ogling. Or are you saying that you don't like the attention of that sort at all?

I love being appriciated and recieving attention... but the line for me is one that some people seem to have a hard time understanding for some reason. I just don't want a man to stare at my chest or my *** or (nothing to look at down there but) well down south. Glance perhaps, but don't stare... it makes me uncomfortable and it makes me think you're a pervert.

To conclude, yes you're correct. I like attention just don't it respectfully.

 

[Mostly Ballroom]

Part of it is whether or not the looker is part of the "dance" or just ogling. For both sexes. I mean it can be a mini 2 or 3 second version of dating where both people participate and contribute.

 

[elisedance]

I love being appriciated and recieving attention... but the line for me is one that some people seem to have a hard time understanding for some reason. I just don't want a man to stare at my chest or my knat or (nothing to look at down there but) well down south. Glance perhaps, but don't stare... it makes me uncomfortable and it makes me think you're a pervert.

But doesn't your reaction also depend on whether you find the 'looker' attractive - which is by its nature unfair but is also human nature. I think this is what really makes it tough: its fiine that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' but more difficult that 'appreciation is in the eye of the subject'...

 

[etp777]

I'll fully admit that my reaction too ogling would depend on how I react to the person (so yes, how attractive I find them).

That being said, I'm shy as heck, and and any blatant ogling is gnona make me nervous/self concious.

 

[fascination]

But doesn't your reaction also depend on whether you find the 'looker' attractive - which is by its nature unfair but is also human nature. I think this is what really makes it tough: its fiine that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' but more difficult that 'appreciation is in the eye of the subject'...

me...I disagree to some extent...I don't need to find the looker attractive ...I just need him not to be creepy and overtly lewd in his leering