Media Luna (Half Moon)

[Dave Bailey]

I took a quick look through the material for the IDTA Syllabus, and came up with this list of fundamental actions or movements to be found in the first dozen illustrated 'figures':

Cruzada, Ocho Atras, Ocho Adelante, Ronde, Giro, Sacada, Media Luna, Cunita, Parada, Passada, Sandwitchito & Barrida.

Firstly, I can't help thinking those descriptions are a bit too "Spanish", you know? (although, "Sandwitchito" - I love it! I'm going to bung that in a class sometime, and see if anyone picks me up on it. ). I mean, what's wrong with "forward" and "back" instead of "adelante" and "atras"?

Secondly, AT is not about the figures. The danger of learning figures is that you learn figures. I took a look at the DVIDA syllabus a year ago - here's my analysis - I think most of the critiques there may apply to the IDTA one.

I don't know enough yet to judge whether the particular syllabus I am looking at is actually good, on its own terms, and of course, I am aware of the existence of a philosophy of learning this dance that would reject any sort of formal codification at all. However, adherents of that view are often the most vocal in saying that you shouldn't do this, or shouldn't (or can't) do that, and I would reply "Oh? Says who?"

I think there's a very good argument for a syllabus, if that syllabus includes stuff - in fact, focusses on stuff - that helps dance socially.

For example, I reckon any decent syllabus should focus on:
- Clarity of lead
- Musicality
- Embrace
- Posture

And only after that, should figures come into it. There's no point being able to execute a perfect volcada if you can't dance to the music.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Case in point, here's Corky Ballas transposing his BR tango with AT and him trying to teach it. It looks, uh... really strange

Brilliant! Funniest thing I've seen all week. I love the way he walks along whilst leaning backwards, it's a classic.

Plus, the phrase "camper than a field of tents" springs to mind for some reason

 

[Peaches]

Case in point, here's Corky Ballas transposing his BR tango with AT and him trying to teach it. It looks, uh... really strange

LOL. That.was.awesome. Wow, how...special.

 

[Clive]

I mean, what's wrong with "forward" and "back" instead of "adelante" and "atras"?

Nothing at all: but its a game many tango dancers play, usually to make beginners feel uncomfortable. Why else would they do it: most of them don't speak Spanish?

BTW I wrote a fairly extended post earlier, that has not appeared - I saw some message flash across the screen about 'referred to a moderator'. Is this a standard feature of the forum if a newbie (me) posts several times on one topic - I didn't say 'bottom' or anything! If i'm in moderation, why has this appeared? Just curious.

 

[dchester]

... and to confuse the issue a bit more (I'm sorry), the are some really good professionals out there who would consider a giro, molinette, enrosque, all the same. Spiral motions, varied only by the way it is led and followed, with no formal terminology behind it all.

FWIW, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that the enrosque is the same thing as the giro or molinette. I've been taught that the enrosque (AKA the cork screw step) was something you could do while turning, but the turn can be done (and typically is done) without an enrosque. I suspect an enrosque could be done with other moves as well, but it's not something that I do.

 

[dchester]

sometimes the terms media luna (1/2 moon) and media vuelta (1/2 turn) are interchanged

is this what you mean by media luna ?
see :20 - :30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7kxpW7jIFk

That's for posting this video. I never knew this pattern had a specific name.

What I took from it was:

1. Walk her to the cross,
2. Lead her to do Front, Side, Back, Back
3. Walk her to the cross.

I must admit I did chuckle a bit, because the title of the video was, "Tools For Improvisation", even though it was teaching a pattern.

 

[Clive]

All dancing is in patterns. Just walking LF RF LF is a pattern.

 

[dchester]

All dancing is in patterns. Just walking LF RF LF is a pattern.

I don't agree that all dancing is in patterns, but I suppose it could be that we have different opinions on what dancing in patterns means. Is there such a thing as an improvised pattern?

 

[Clive]

Well look at it the other way: is what you are leading random? Would it matter (to either of you) what you did next? Do you actually move randomly, or have you organised what you are doing to suit yourselves and the music? You may not be dancing quite the same thing as anyone else on the floor, and you may be genuinely improvising from step to step (or be standing completely still), but we dance with order, not in chaos.

 

[Zoopsia59]

its a game many tango dancers play, usually to make beginners feel uncomfortable. Why else would they do it: most of them don't speak Spanish?

I really don't think people use the Spanish terms to make beginners uncomfortable any more than Ballet teachers and dancers use French to make beginners uncomfortable. Ballet started in France. AT started in Spanish speaking countries. You could make an argument that continuing to use the Spanish terms allows tango dancers to take class or work with people who don't speak their own native language just as continuing to use French allows Ballet dancers to take class anywhere in the world.

Why assign such negative motivations to such a large and varied group of people? (ie: tango dancers/teachers)

 

[JohnEm]

Nothing at all: but its a game many tango dancers play, usually to make beginners feel uncomfortable. Why else would they do it: most of them don't speak Spanish?

I'm a bit mystified by your comment here.
You are the one basing the thread on the IDTA syllabus, this is their terminology.
I don't hear tango dancers spouting this sort of stuff. On the contrary, they just dance.

"Sandwitchito" - Spanglish for you know what.

All dancing is in patterns. Just walking LF RF LF is a pattern.

Pedant!

Well look at it the other way: is what you are leading random? Would it matter (to either of you) what you did next? Do you actually move randomly, or have you organised what you are doing to suit yourselves and the music? You may not be dancing quite the same thing as anyone else on the floor, and you may be genuinely improvising from step to step (or be standing completely still), but we dance with order, not in chaos.

You dance with order, you're a ballroomer with a ballroomer's mindset at present.
Tango milonguero is improvised in the moment, influenced by your partner and
by the music. The only organisation is at the start of the dance: as the leader
your position on the floor, entering the embrace together and then, as the leader again,
the consequent first movement. After that the tango is yours, meaning yours
and your partners.

I've been trying to avoid straying into the VU area but cannot. If you learn patterns,
patterns will be what you do unless you consciously throw them away. Yet another
reason for my sig.

Genuinely improvised Tango is a sort of ordered Chaos, because there are principles
and techniques. Ordered Chaos because the partners have to understand each other.
Ordered Chaos because we have to co-exist on the same floor (excluding Negracha's
for the benefit of DB). But the dance itself is disordered, you can get to the finish
without ever being certain how you got there. Words can't adequately describe.

You seem to be looking for a route map, well there's no SatNav, the journey
and its meanderings are what you make it, as is its ending.

 

[Dave Bailey]

LOL. That.was.awesome. Wow, how...special.

It's just been pointed out to me that Corky's (!) partner in that vid is none other than Kristina Rihanoff, of Strictly Come Dancing fame.

We all have to start somewhere

 

[dchester]

Well look at it the other way: is what you are leading random? Would it matter (to either of you) what you did next? Do you actually move randomly, or have you organised what you are doing to suit yourselves and the music? You may not be dancing quite the same thing as anyone else on the floor, and you may be genuinely improvising from step to step (or be standing completely still), but we dance with order, not in chaos.

I don't think what I'm leading is random (although maybe my followers might disagree).

I actually think there are more options than random and pattern, though. I'm not saying that I never use patterns, though. I'm just question whether all dancing is patterns.

For me, there are several variables that go into what step(s) I do. (The space, floorcraft (who's approaching me), the follower, the music, my mood, and how well I perceive my dancing on a given night).

If there's lots of space, then patterns become a much more viable option. The music typically effects things like the rhythms and how I do steps. However, I'll admit there are times when I'll think a particular step might be nice at some point in the song, so I improvise whatever I need to, so the step is ready at the correct point in the song (although other variables may prevent it from occurring).

 

[Dave Bailey]

I really don't think people use the Spanish terms to make beginners uncomfortable

It's jargon.

Jargon is not necessarily helpful in teaching.

 

[v22TTC]

Dave Bailey: I would guess that the 8CB has the backstep:-

1 To make it easier to keep repeating it continuously;

2 To make the beginning follower familiar with the 'pull' that indicates a forward movement by her (getting her used to being able to maintain the tension in whatever direction the movement is);

3 (Though it never seems to be taught this way, it might be useful) To get the leader used to the idea that any backsteps that he does take should be tight and small (since some moves require them).

???

BTW, I'm a total romantic sap when it comes to TA, so I love the Spanish terms... but only in my head (since the Spanish words for 'forward' and 'back' (etc) used round here are not the ones that seem to be more commonly used...).


Clive: Your missing post will probably turn up, and I'd expect that you'll get a pm from a Moderator explaining the situation (if you haven't already). Essentially, use only plain text (for now) and you should be fine.