Media Luna (Half Moon)

Why assign such negative motivations to such a large and varied group of people?

Perhaps my experience tells me that many tango dancers go out of their way to make beginners feel uncomfortable. They laugh at us if we use do Spanish terms, and they (or different ones) laugh at us if we don't - we can't win, but perhaps that's the idea. Admit that you might have ever been a ballroom dancer and they queue up to tell you that your posture's all wrong, and that you only understand dancing sequences, and that you have to be ready to forget everything you have ever learned. Hm.

The obvious reason to use Spanish terms is that it is reasonable to assume they represent 'common ground' across language boundaries. While pretending that the dance style is entirely improvised and spontaneous (although its remarkable how everyone keeps inventing the same dozen or so fundamental actions - perhaps they're on to something) we all know what we mean by using a commonly understood term. My original (and genuine) question here was about an obvious similarity between actions, and my question intended to help me distill the difference (if there was one) between them.
 
Perhaps my experience tells me that many tango dancers go out of their way to make beginners feel uncomfortable. They laugh at us if we use do Spanish terms, and they (or different ones) laugh at us if we don't - we can't win, but perhaps that's the idea..

I'm really sorry you are in such a snotty community. That was not my experience at all with the terms. The community I am in did have a fairly cliquish mentality in the past and sometimes it felt like being back in high school. But I have to admit that a fair portion of my feeling that was due to my own insecurities rather than anyone's actual behavior towards me. And it was NEVER about my use of the Spanish terms or lack thereof.

Besides, since one of the main teachers WAS Argentine and a native Spanish speaker, it was hardly surprising that he used the Spanish tango terms. That's how he learned it, and would have even if the rest of the world didn't use the Spanish.
 
Why does the 8CB have a backstep? Anyone know?
No definitive answer I know of other than simplicity of teaching and the fact
I've read its invention has been credited to Juan Carlos Copes which I cannot verify.

That it was invented by a show dancer for teaching would make sense as no experienced
responsible social dancer would teach a backstep start. Probably a social argentinian
dancer would teach the salida start (and I never was) but it's remarkable how infrequently
you see that here. And how perverse that the beginning of the dance has a name
which infers almost exactly the opposite.

One of the explanations for the invention and use of the 8CB is it includes all
the various basic elements of Tango. That's just rubbish of course.
Another I've actually heard used is that it gets people dancing which I think
is much more likely. It makes sense when you consider how it was apparently
first used by show dancers teaching interested members of their audiences.
Still happens now, I've experienced that within the last year in Brighton.

And then there's ease and/or laziness of teaching. One of the elements the 8CB omits
is weight changing. It could easily start with weight on man's left, lady's right and
weight change to the other feet on Count One. And then having reached Count 8
another such weight change could occur or a little back step, curved or otherwise.
I have also seen it taught on a video starting with a sidestep right.

As a dancer from other dances I used to play with it, reshaping it especially.
But you'd be surprised how much objection I'd get from partners whose mindset
was so locked in to the familiar pattern. Others loved it. Made them feel they were dancing.
I could still do a whole dance executing nothing but a modified Basic8 but it wouldn't
feel or look like it. I might be bored though and so might my partner!
 
It's just been pointed out to me that Corky's (!) partner in that vid is none other than Kristina Rihanoff, of Strictly Come Dancing fame.
That was my first impression when I watched it (well as much as I could stand).
Then I decided that was daft!
 
.. I've read its invention has been credited to Juan Carlos Copes which I cannot verify...

Thanks, thats interesting (Any source available?). My level of information is, that M. Pugliese "invented" the 8 of the 8CB, and constantly used and cited this base in his didactics. Before Pugliese the Baldosa, the square, was more common as basic. With Naveira the base (as a fixed sequence of steps) served its time, b.c his basic units are the steps (for, back, open, front-crossing, back-crossing, a.s.o).
 
Probably a social argentinian
dancer would teach the salida start ... And how perverse that the beginning of the dance has a name
which infers almost exactly the opposite.

My 1st teacher used the salida start in beginner lessons. I've heard the paradox of the name explained as that you are exiting the table area. (or something like that)

edited to add, from this link:
http://www.tejastango.com/terminology.html#S

Salida
— From salir - to exit; to go out: The first steps of dancing a tango, or a tango pattern, derived from “¿Salimos a bailar?” {Shall we (go out to the dance floor and) dance?}.
 
I must admit I did chuckle a bit, because the title of the video was, "Tools For Improvisation", even though it was teaching a pattern.

My impressions was that "Tools for Improvisation" was the title of a video series and that this particular one is called Decorating the Media Luna. So the docorations are the improvised part they are attempting to demonstrate.

But yeah....
 
I'm a bit mystified by your comment here.
You are the one basing the thread on the IDTA syllabus, this is their terminology.
I don't hear tango dancers spouting this sort of stuff. On the contrary, they just dance.

"Sandwitchito" - Spanglish for you know what.

No, I mentioned the syllabus, but it wasn't the focus of my original question. Actually I know all of those terms, independently of the syllabus, and the overwhelming majority of them are very well known terms, even if you, personally, don't choose to use them. 'Sandwitchito'? - it's a bit precious, for sure, but isn't it just a diminutive form of the ordinary word? Not that being a diminutive adds anything, that I can think of so I think we could probably agree that that one is Spanglish!

Hey, I'm not an IDTA spokesman! If you looked at the syllabus book in detail it would make you cry (the detailed accounts of movements have the follower pivoting on a foot she isn't standing on more than once, for example). The DVD that comes separately is much better. Both are by Stefanos & Valentina (a Greek couple), but for anyone curious about their dancing, there isn't much on YouTube that isn't based on show tango - although that is not the focus of the syllabus.

If anyone knows of their dancing, or has experience of their teaching, I'd be very interested to know what you think.
 
Well look at it the other way: is what you are leading random? .

Such in the beauty of tango... In a way, yes. It is random, based on the where the mood and music takes you. Tango is not a set of patterns built up and formulated before you execute. It is chaos, put in order and made to look good.


...Would it matter (to either of you) what you did next? Do you actually move randomly, or have you organised what you are doing to suit yourselves and the music?

Would it matter what you do next? No. For as long as the leader can stitch what is being led seamlessly.


...You may not be dancing quite the same thing as anyone else on the floor, and you may be genuinely improvising from step to step (or be standing completely still), but we dance with order, not in chaos.

You really shouldn't be dancing the same thing as anybody else... as long as it's AT done well.

It is chaos made into beautiful order. AT is not steps and patterns strung together. Rather, it is an improvisational dance, danced with a narrow set of rules/parameters, of which you dance within—Dynamically.
 
I don't think we disagree - we just express ourselves differently.

You don't create order out of chaos by being indifferent in what follows what - random steps just won't do at all.

The 'improvisational' character of AT is, at all times, tempered by 'a narrow set of rules/parameters' - otherwise just plain chaos would ensue. Many people would be reluctant to admit just how 'narrow' is the set. Let's suppose you're sitting out, and watching the floor closely. Eight times out of ten I can predict what a leader is about to do, based on what he has just done. If I'm looking at a ballroom dance, then the percentage is much higher. I'm not denying the improvisatory character of the dance to say that its typical movements fall into clear families, and that they are, in a loose sense, patterns. They are. I have eyes: I observe what happens. Lost in the moment, a dancer may think they have come up with something original. Someone else will spontaneously come up with very much the same thing within a moment or two, to be sure, and I don't know why we should want to be so defensive about it.

If we could genuinely come up with something new, and if the followers could genuinely follow into the unknown, then the dance would change its character so frequently, that unless you danced several nights a week, you wouldn't recognise what you thought you knew, after just a week or two.
 
Thanks, thats interesting (Any source available?).
This was from hazy memory and I had briefly tried to find some confirmation
without success. But as you asked . .

Alberto Paz's "Gotta Tango" - that book again - refers to the first tango lessons
in the US being in the parking lots behind the theatre in which Tango Argentino
was performed in the 1980s held by the performers responding to the requests
of the audience. They resorted to choreography to satisfy students looking
for a basic step (or more likely in my view basic steps) to get going.
(Page 66 for Steve Pastor!)

According to a piece on Keith Elshaw's ToTango site the members of the cast
included: Horacio Salgan, Juan Carlos Copes, Maria Nieves, Sexteto Mayor,
Virulazo y Elvira, Roberto Goyeneche, Miguel Zotto y Milena Plebs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20160324133142/http://totango.net/ta.html

Circumstantial I know and I haven't had time to look further.
As Keith Elshaw was married to one of the Nieves sisters
maybe there's more on his site. Meanwhile, if anyone knows better . . . ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
...no experienced responsible social dancer would teach a backstep start...

On a crowded dance floor, certainly the backstep should be stored away in ones attic. However, I see no reason not to use it when there is plenty of space for it. There are also other steps that move backwards, such as molinetes and sometimes an ocho cortado.

... And how perverse that the beginning of the dance has a name which infers almost exactly the opposite...

I heard that the salida is the beginning of a dance phrase (the going out part). In the middle is the body of the phrase, and it ends with a resolution. The whole concept then begins again. I rather like that idea, and I find it useful for creating an interesting dance.

...One of the explanations for the invention and use of the 8CB is it includes all the various basic elements of Tango...
One of the elements the 8CB omits is weight changing...

I was given that explanation and I find that it's true for a walking dance. (It is a basic step only). From a leaders view point it has a back step, a side step left, walking outside (the easy side), a cruzada, a forward step (inside), a side step right, and a change of weight in place. Omitting ochos, that's everything that can be done.

According to Rudolfo Dinzel's method, each count had appropriate variations that could be inserted.

Danel Bastone told me that he and Maria closed down their ballroom dance studio in NY to tour with Tango Argentino and give lessons to interested people. He used the 8CB.
 
...
According to a piece on Keith Elshaw's ToTango site the members of the cast included: Horacio Salgan, Juan Carlos Copes, Maria Nieves, Sexteto Mayor, Virulazo y Elvira, Roberto Goyeneche, Miguel Zotto y Milena Plebs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20160324133142/http://totango.net/ta.html

I thought the original cast had four older couples, therefore all distinct in their dancing. I don't think Miquel and Milena were in it, and I do think Eduardo and Gloria Archuimbau were.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top