Miles apart embrace

[oldtangoguy]

Okay. This is unclear.

Does she make contact with her right hand, allowing for the open side of the connection? If so, that's half the battle.

Is she willing to make contact, her hand on the lead's arm, say holding on gently below the bicep, on the closed side of the embrace? If so, that is the other half of the battle. In dancing oe, I try to never lead with the hand on my partner's back. That is not necessary to communicate what my chest is doing. In oe, my hand essentially rests there because it is conventional. If she is too far away to rest my hand on her back, no big deal. I do, however, expect her to manage the closed side of the embrace by holding my arm sufficiently to sense both rotation and linear motion.

So. If she is willing to connect hands on the open side and gently hold the leader's arm on the "closed" side, she can dance and have fun if the leads are accepting of an oe. The lead certainly does not need to hold on to her.

 

[Someday]

So speaking of embraces...there is a woman I dance with and she is a good dancer but has a habit of letting her right hand go completely limp and slide out of my hand. After dancing with her a while and getting to know her a bit, I asked her why her hand was going limp. I thought perhaps I was holding my left hand too high (somewhere around her shoulder height) because sometimes followers do have a preference for a variety of reasons (hand grip too tight, want hip-milongero style, a hint to adjust arm height...). I thought of a bunch of different reasons why she might go limp (and she does this with other dancers too) so I asked her and she said it was unconscious. I guess the good news was that I wasn't doing anything to her specifically to warrant this behavior, but I was a bit dumbfounded as to how to proceed in the conversation and even if I wanted to. We have a cordial relationship, she's not one of my favorite dancers in part for this reason and while I'd like her to get some feedback on this trait, I don't want to impose my 'analysis'. I was thinking of talking to a couple of my dance teachers about it but ideas are welcome.

 

[SoAndSo]

Not coming from Tango, but knowing the distance Problem too well, I'd say: if she likes the dance and the music, make it a game of finding ways to have great dances without forcing your body on her. And over time help her develop herself without forcing yourself on her. It tells a lot about you as a dancer, if you can make a close embrace being something positive to someone, who is neither really used to it nor physically attracted to you.

When I started to dance my partner teased me with moving too close for me. I.e. backwards into full body contact and then doing body waves. Well, with a problematic relation to women and being actually afraid to touch them - strange childhood indoctrination - that was troubling for me. Specially because I liked it. Took me 2 years to get mostly rid of it (still sometimes comes back) and then another half year to learn respectful distances again. (And another half year to mostly get rid of the bad reputation ...)

While I have won that battle, a friend is still fighting her's, which I am accompanying her with.
She also has that mixture of insecurity and relict of harmful religious indoctrination - which troubles her in more than just dancing. Took me half a year to get her from "moving a lot and in open hold only" to "she starts to cuddle in Bachata". And here comes another problem, women could be scared of - rightfully. While she looses her fear of closeness, men are starting to take advantage of it (she is very pretty). While for me it was me, misinterpreting the closeness and taking wrong actions, now it's her naivety that prevents her from stating the guys clearly, that they are pressing the boundaries. Boundaries she hasn't ever learned to establish. It probably will be a shock for her, when she really realizes, that some of the nice guys, that suddenly dance with her, are simply trying to hit on her, now that she doesn't tell them "stay away" all the time anymore.

Well, during this half year I have developed myself a lot.
While I could enjoy getting close to a woman before already, I couldn't make women really enjoy it - unless they were simply used to it. (I am not the attractive guy.)
I taught myself an aura of warmth and being welcome with a certain bit of flirting, that many normally rather distanced women cannot get enough from it. Now I am the guy, the people standing at the side of the dance floor start asking: How does THAT guy get THAT woman dance with him THAT way?

And this is probably something you want for dancing tango: the women shall not get into close hold, because that is the way it is done, nor because they are hitting on you. The reason should be, because it feels great to dance that way with you.

 

[JTh]

An update..she is getting a bit more comfortable with an embrace. Still won't go anywhere near a closed embrace..but that's ok..at least she is forming some kind of open embrace.
Personally, I think she has saw me with other followers just how close the embrace can get.. and she wants none of it. Thats fine as I said..she is realising that some form of embrace is greatly beneficial in this dance and she has to get around this fear yo get better.

 

[Mladenac]

Is she still uncomfortable even in the open embrace?
Many of us have some emotional barriers and a teachers need to know how to break them.

I did a workshop about non-verbal communication in tango and people "danced" 3 metres apart.
And people who didn't have much interaction with each other smiled for the first time after a few months going to a communication group.
Since people were on the safe distance and felt some emotional connection later interaction was really easy.
I hope it helps.

 

[JTh]

Is she still uncomfortable even in the open embrace?
Many of us have some emotional barriers and a teachers need to know how to break them.

I did a workshop about non-verbal communication in tango and people "danced" 3 metres apart.
And people who didn't have much interaction with each other smiled for the first time after a few months going to a communication group.
Since people were on the safe distance and felt some emotional connection later interaction was really easy.
I hope it helps.

Yes we have those classes as well.. But she never attends. Maybe why leads and followers are generally very comfortable with eachother (high level of trust established).
We too have numerous types of social events and classes where people get to know oneanother. She just does not attend any of these.

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

My philosophy in dancing and well as in general is to take the path of least resistance: in a scenario like this, rather than trying to figure out, influence, convince etc. I choose to dance with other followers where I communicate better and have more fun dancing with. When it's not an issue of values and principals, why waist precious life energy?

 

[dchester]

An update..she is getting a bit more comfortable with an embrace. Still won't go anywhere near a closed embrace..but that's ok..at least she is forming some kind of open embrace.
Personally, I think she has saw me with other followers just how close the embrace can get.. and she wants none of it. Thats fine as I said..she is realising that some form of embrace is greatly beneficial in this dance and she has to get around this fear yo get better.

Any progress is good. I hope she gets there.

 

[Mladenac]

Yes we have those classes as well.. But she never attends. Maybe why leads and followers are generally very comfortable with eachother (high level of trust established).
We too have numerous types of social events and classes where people get to know oneanother. She just does not attend any of these.

We cannot do work for another people. If she is informed about events and still doesn't attend it is her issue.
As I notice that she is making some progress. Tango reveals a lot of issues we are not aware of.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I am not sure if anyone has spoken to her about this. Most likely not the leads because there are many other followers who welcome both close and more open embraces.
The teacher has mentioned from time to time to 'come closer' between the partners, and she has inched forward- but you can just feel the uncomfortableness she is feeling in doing so.

Even in an intro AT class, a good teacher will introduce the abrazo and how it should be approached fairly early on in the class. Obviously, students respond differently to this depending on their background and the makeup of the class, but it's a key element. I don't have any specific recommendations for you. If you're both in the same class and that's what she wants, there's not much you can do about it. Lead her in an open "student" embrace for the class exercises. At some point she may come around to accept the closeness or turn to nuevo.

 

[JTh]

Even in an intro AT class, a good teacher will introduce the abrazo and how it should be approached fairly early on in the class. Obviously, students respond differently to this depending on their background and the makeup of the class, but it's a key element. I don't have any specific recommendations for you. If you're both in the same class and that's what she wants, there's not much you can do about it. Lead her in an open "student" embrace for the class exercises. At some point she may come around to accept the closeness or turn to nuevo.

Yes. The teachers do demonstrate both the open and close embrace many times. Different people react to it differently.

 

[Vincenze]

You can go to jail for improperly touching a woman, 10 years or so.
There are dancers who say at once, "I prefer open embrace." They usually disappear quickly - why would you try to do anything about their embrace if they will quit dancing soon anyway?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

You can go to jail for improperly touching a woman, 10 years or so.
There are dancers who say at once, "I prefer open embrace." They usually disappear quickly - why would you try to do anything about their embrace if they will quit dancing soon anyway?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was referring to a teaching situation, as you can read from my earlier reply. Be that as it may, it strikes me as odd that someone would take a class in partner dancing, tango no less, who does not want to be touched.

 

[Vincenze]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was referring to a teaching situation, as you can read from my earlier reply. Be that as it may, it strikes me as odd that someone would take a class in partner dancing, tango no less, who does not want to be touched.

The question wasn't about teaching. A teacher doesn't care about embraces in a group class. He can care when it's a private lesson.

A leader asked what to do when a lady keeps herself one foot away.
A couple dancing salsa keeps a distance. It's a partner dance too.

I've seen situations when ladies shrieked in classes. The teachers tried to calm them down, "It was an accident. Sometimes a partner can inadvertently touch your breasts."

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The question wasn't about teaching. A teacher doesn't care about embraces in a group class. He can care when it's a private lesson.

A leader asked what to do when a lady keeps herself one foot away.
A couple dancing salsa keeps a distance. It's a partner dance too.

I've seen situations when ladies shrieked in classes. The teachers tried to calm them down, "It was an accident. Sometimes a partner can inadvertently touch your breasts."

The teacher had better care about the abrazo, since it's the core element of tango. And any teacher who failed to explain it would be remiss. It's not for a private lesson.

Salsa can be danced close, too, there is no requisite distance.

As for your shrieking, I can't comment since no one in any class I've taken has ever shrieked.