Milonga and Vals fundamentals

[bordertangoman]

following Ladyleader's comments above; vals music can be used for ochos quite easily.

 

[LadyLeader]

One more thing! I would squeeze the 6 step box to 4 steps and let it go without the backstep. Few beginners have the control needed for a backstep and therefore I NEVER include backsteps at beginner level.
(it can be traumatic for a beginner to bump to a iritated experienced dancer)

 

[UKDancer]

following Ladyleader's comments above; vals music can be used for ochos quite easily.

I agree: and if back ochos are led from a side step with a leader's weight change into cross system, that will often cry out for syncopation on beats 1&2. The cross is another movement that works very well over beats 1&2 (step, cross), so nearly everything that a beginner learns in the first few weeks: simple rhythmic walking, double & half-time steps, pauses, weight changes in place, the cross and ochos (forward & back) and rock steps are perfect material for both vals & milonga.

It makes you wonder why so many dancers seem to struggle. I agree, too, with Dave Bailey's earlier comment that the two can be thought of as having an easier rhythmic structure (at a certain level). Listening to lots of suitable and approachable music is, I'm certain, the key to these dances.

Start with simple 'alternative' music that just has a clear pluse, and work backwards in time to those fantastic but challenging D'Arienzo milongas. But don't stop there, though, because that rhythmic drive and playfulness crosses over, almost 100%, with tango of the same period. Listen to D'Arienzo's 1937 version of 'El Choclo', for example. Clearly this is tango, but you aren't going to get very far with it unless you can dance milonga con traspie really quite well.

PS Alex Krebs teaches a simplified 4-step version of the 6-step Baldosa basic, too. He takes steps 3456, but substitutes weight changes in place for the side, close of 5&6 (saying* that it is 'important' not to step to the side, but not why ...)

*I'm referring to his instructional video series recently launched for the iPad/iPhone. A daft medium, but they're very well worth seeking out, and not expensive.

 

[JohnEm]

See, the thing is, I think that understanding that underlying rhythm is almost the key point - to me, everything else can almost be summed-up as "dance tango, but small and fast", at least at an introductory level.

Admittedly, it's challenging to get people started on traspie to people, but I think that understanding this will really help. Besides, what sort of a name is Lisa anyway?

It's Milonga Liso by the way meaning Plain or Simple Milonga (sin traspié).

Traspie is not too hard, I think the trick is the size of the steps. The general instinct from people, when they start to move fast, is to tend to take bigger, more energetic steps.

If that is your observation of most people then being able to guide
them differently will be a real benefit (provided they can respond).
Rarely taught as an exercise is practising changing from single speed
stepping to double time stepping and back while maintaining the
the same velocity (within reason, no-one is going to measure).

If you try it do heed these words though:

Apart from working, directly, on partner connection; I would suggest excercises - which can perfectly well be done solo - to improve the control of carriage of the body weight over the feet, so as to be able to make very tight, fast but controlled weight changes, without which, traspies are never going to happen.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Too many tango dancers have a permanent scowl. Smiling is good.

 

[Subliminal]

I like the milonga 6 and 4 count basics. The are good holding patterns for beginners when they can't think of any thing else. Heh.

The backstep is less of a problem if you are sideways down line of dance as your default position, or are rotating your basic steps.

Am I the only one who was taught milonga old-school? Sideways instead of forward?

 

[UKDancer]

It's Milonga Liso by the way meaning Plain or Simple Milonga (sin traspié).

Lisa/Liso? I see both forms, regularly. Is it not the same word with a masculine and feminine ending? (I don't know any Spanish). I like wikipedia's definition of milonga, though: 'Milonga is an excited habanera'. Quite.

 

[bastet]

I like the milonga 6 and 4 count basics. The are good holding patterns for beginners when they can't think of any thing else. Heh.

The backstep is less of a problem if you are sideways down line of dance as your default position, or are rotating your basic steps.

Am I the only one who was taught milonga old-school? Sideways instead of forward?

No, but I've found it's hard to get people to think about turning themselves so that they are not always progressing down LOD facing forward....

 

[bastet]

I agree: and if back ochos are led from a side step with a leader's weight change into cross system, that will often cry out for syncopation on beats 1&2. The cross is another movement that works very well over beats 1&2 (step, cross), so nearly everything that a beginner learns in the first few weeks: simple rhythmic walking, double & half-time steps, pauses, weight changes in place, the cross and ochos (forward & back) and rock steps are perfect material for both vals & milonga.

It makes you wonder why so many dancers seem to struggle. I agree, too, with Dave Bailey's earlier comment that the two can be thought of as having an easier rhythmic structure (at a certain level). Listening to lots of suitable and approachable music is, I'm certain, the key to these dances.

Start with simple 'alternative' music that just has a clear pluse, and work backwards in time to those fantastic but challenging D'Arienzo milongas. But don't stop there, though, because that rhythmic drive and playfulness crosses over, almost 100%, with tango of the same period. Listen to D'Arienzo's 1937 version of 'El Choclo', for example. Clearly this is tango, but you aren't going to get very far with it unless you can dance milonga con traspie really quite well.

PS Alex Krebs teaches a simplified 4-step version of the 6-step Baldosa basic, too. He takes steps 3456, but substitutes weight changes in place for the side, close of 5&6 (saying* that it is 'important' not to step to the side, but not why ...)

*I'm referring to his instructional video series recently launched for the iPad/iPhone. A daft medium, but they're very well worth seeking out, and not expensive.

I have all of those (and Alex is one of my teachers). Do you mean the section where he talks about his "crabbing" basic, that goes sideways down LOD? That's where I recall him talking about not turning the changes in place in to side steps. There is a fun old fashioned step that you can do where you take that basic idea/pattern and use a side step where the change of weight would go, but then the leader has to know how to lead the follower to cross in front, whereas in the basic crabbing pattern, he doesn't. It's a fun, very "milonga" pattern, (and very common pattern to see in performances sped up to all quicks) and it helps people learn to work on something that is really hard (leading weight changes in place) and differentiate them from side steps, which is also a common problem.

 

[JohnEm]

Lisa/Liso? I see both forms, regularly. Is it not the same word with a masculine and feminine ending? (I don't know any Spanish).

It is the same word but Spanish doesn't seem to arbitrarily apply a gender
to anything and everything in the way of the French. As far as I can tell
Tango and milonga are gender neutral. After all men and women dance them
so which gender would you choose?

In the absence of gender I believe it should be Milonga Liso but if a Spanish
speaker knows different . . . . . ? I'm going to blame DB for raising this!

 

[JohnEm]

PS Alex Krebs teaches a simplified 4-step version of the 6-step Baldosa basic, too. He takes steps 3456, but substitutes weight changes in place for the side, close of 5&6 (saying* that it is 'important' not to step to the side, but not why ...)

It is not important, but his pattern is probably easier.
The side step (5) and close (6) bring the partners in line again, or as
in-line as the embrace being used allows. The sidestep, weight change and
forward step outside (3, remember there is no 1 and 2) introduces a new
rhythmical movement and is difficult to begin with at milonga speed.
So it's important only to simplify his teaching (and pupil learning).

*I'm referring to his instructional video series recently launched for the iPad/iPhone. A daft medium, but they're very well worth seeking out, and not expensive.

I wouldn't be sure.

 

[UKDancer]

I have all of those (and Alex is one of my teachers). Do you mean the section where he talks about his "crabbing" basic, that goes sideways down LOD?

No, but the immediately preceding section. I think that the whole series is a bit 'mixed' in value, but some of it is very good indeed.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Dont' have time to read entire thread....

3. Teach the leaders about leading bursts of energy for traspies instead of trying to micromanage their partner's weight changes. Micromanaging is futile in fast milongas; you have to trust your partner with her feet.

Be sure to teach the women to NOT RUN AWAY from these "bursts of energy", but rather to match the increased energy to keep things together.

 

[LadyLeader]

Usually the most clear sections in a song are not so long therefore I have used Audacity program to create tracks with exactly the most suitable parts of the songs.

In Audacity I can also make the music slower and give participants more time to register/hear the rhythm we try to understand and it is also possible to do it faster little by little.

 

[bastet]

No, but the immediately preceding section. I think that the whole series is a bit 'mixed' in value, but some of it is very good indeed.

I think it was just because that was what he was teaching relative to the pattern rather than as a general rule. Besides, it'd be harder to turn it if you were making those in place steps as sides.

 

[bastet]

Lisa/Liso? I see both forms, regularly. Is it not the same word with a masculine and feminine ending? (I don't know any Spanish). I like wikipedia's definition of milonga, though: 'Milonga is an excited habanera'. Quite.

Generally in Spanish if it ends in o it's a masculine word and a is feminine, so it would be el tango. And Liso would be used instead of the feminine form Lisa to describe it so, tango Liso.

Milonga is feminine, so it's milonga lisa.

Other examples. El niño, la Nina.