Milongueros del barrio

[brujo]

I can just hear what my partner would say if I did that. As I said, I've had offers. These offers were quite plainly non-romantic in nature, in most cases literally being "I need a partner to register, and everything is much cheaper for two, so could you do me a huge favor as an acquaintance? I'll even pick up more than my share, since I'm the one asking." I've floated these past my partner, whose reaction is consistently, "What, is she crazy?" . . . and when she gossips with other stay-local tangueras, they say the same thing.

I have read about people using rent-a-friend to pay $10/hr and hire a person to practice for their dance degree programs. And you hear about the ladies that bring their non-dancing significant others to role balanced events and ruin it for everyone. But I wonder if there is an option where a poorer local non traveler (such as a college student in a tango club without funds or a retiree) could advertise their availability for events without much judgment.

 

[brujo]

I'm not affiliated or used it at all but apparently there is now a website that connects tango dancers traveling and people who want to host them tangoStay | Accommodations for Tango Dancers in Europe

Also learned there is a Facebook group where if you are delayed at an airport going to a festival you can meet other dancers and dance in the terminal.

 

[JournalInTime]

I have read about people using rent-a-friend to pay $10/hr and hire a person to practice for their dance degree programs.

Staying local, I have served as a practice, class, workshop, and milonga partner to many followers who know me principally as a tango leader and not as much else (i.e., people who aren't really clear on where I'm from, how I earn my living, what my relationship status is, what other hobbies I have, or even my true age). I've been offered actual money only a couple of times, but I've never been comfortable with that . . . to me, that's for teachers, not for peers who happen to dance the right role. However, I've accepted material benefits that have a cash value, including admission and registration fees, transportation, refreshments, and small gifts. Yeah, I suppose that's totally arbitrary.

Anyway, what's interesting is that this happens because I am local and known in the abstract, at least in my tango identity. There's always a sense of "I've seen you around for years, I know you aren't terrible, and my friend said you're not creepy, so could you help me out?"

 

[Brummbaer]

That might be something specific to people who travel for tango, making it an interesting sub-discussion for this thread! ...

If travelling is required to a tango event, I'd usually go with my wife (and dance partner), so it rarely applies.

However on occasions where my wife has been away elsewhere, I've been encouraged by my wife to provide a lead partner for others - and have done so. I've travelled to milongas on my own, even encouraged to do so, when my wife hasn't been available. I know of several other couples where this applies.

Reactions of others? Well, they (family, even younger family, and non-dancing friends) are 'shocked' that I, and my wife, dance in close embrace with several others. I don't think they'd be more shocked about travelling with another friend of the opposite sex to a milonga (just thinking back, we have done similar with others pre-AT).

 

[itwillhappen]

Sure, but in my specific context, "traveling" doesn't mean what you said, really.

In that sense, I also don't travel for tango.
Ultimately I do consider the cost per pleasant tanda (CppT); and the optimum is somewhere in our metropolitan area (5 million people, 1 hour) or maybe 2 hours drive for a milonga, 4 hours for a weekend.
A flight is only an option for me if it's combined with at least a week's vacation.

 

[opendoor]

..you can dance salon in compact embrace. That’s how I was introduced to salon. After dancing apilado with shared axis for many years..

I think we always need more adjectives to describe a style in detail. To me, "compact" sounds dense. With "apilado" I think of lean. With "salon", however, I think more of the angled geometry (> hold, v-hold), while "apilado," similar to "nuevo," the torsos are alined parallel.

 

[itwillhappen]

I would say that's just a function of my couple, except that it objectively is not. It describes the majority (in fact, the overwhelming majority) of attitudes among local coupled dancers I know. The only ones who up and go on tango trips where they voyage and room with people who aren't their romantic/life partners, but conceivably could be, are single.

I also only shared an apartment or a room (and even the bed once) with women when I was single.
A partnership usually works best when you consistently prioritize your partner. There might be serious reasons to deviate from this in individual cases, but what might such reasons be here?

 

[brujo]

Ultimately I do consider the cost per pleasant tanda (CppT);

I think I go to a lot of events for the gossip and music and to ogle at the pretty young things. So my metric is more enjoyable minutes at the event plus driving. Sometimes there is an amazing orchestra and even if the dancing is mediocre it’s fine.

 

[Bailango]

Sure, but in my specific context, "traveling" doesn't mean what you said, really.

There are directions in which going 2 hours from my door would get me to . . . one of the nearer satellite communities of the CMA/greater city in which I live, which might be different, but not different enough to be worth the hassle. (Yes, I know people who commute 2 hours each way for work.) That's partly "Canada is huge," partly "Canada has a famously rough winter that can easily double travel times," and partly "the Montréal area, specifically, has poor roads and closed lanes even at the best of times, as well as unreliable regional rail."

If I want to get out of, say, my country, and go somewhere I won't see people from home or hear mainly English or French around me, I must board a plane that costs much more than a road or rail trip, and then fly for at least 4 1/2 hours and probably for more like 6 1/2 to 7 hours. I'll need a passport and perhaps a visa. I'd formerly have had less strict standards and included, say, Portland, San Francisco, or LA . . . but the recent political situation between Canada and the U.S.A. militates against that.

Globally, something like that is normal – the EU perspective is skewed.

Let's assume, then, that when I am writing here, "tango travel" means getting on a plane in, say, Montréal or Toronto or New York City or LA, and flying for most of a day – at considerable expense – to somewhere like Paris or Berlin. Where, being a North American with very low odds of knowing anybody, I will have to pay for a costly hotel to stay in. (It seems to me that "stay with friends, or even just acquaintances, to save money" is more of a North American value than a European one, but I could be wrong.)

If you count "Getting into a car and driving for a few hours to the next city down the highway," my partner and I have already done that many times. By Canadian standards, that isn't "traveling"; depending on the destination, we'd still be on local health insurance and could take an on-demand CommunAuto rental and just drop it off in the street! By Canadian tango standards, up to half of the people we'd encounter would be people we'd see here. (One time, it was "all the people but this one guy.")

This is alien to my life, too.

Were I to travel to dance – in the sense above or even just the local sense – it would be with my long-term life and dance partner. I've lived with her, shared wins and losses with her, and traveled with her for years and years, so I know we're compatible and that I can rely on her. I wouldn't need to travel to some tango event to find that out.

Due to us being a couple, if I said to her tomorrow, "I am going to travel abroad with another person to dance with her at this event," I'd put a "long-term partner," "live with her," "rely on her," etc. at risk. Maybe it's just our values, maybe it's Canadian values in general, or maybe it's something else . . . but traveling with someone who could be mistaken for your life partner – as a tango partner could easily be, at least where I live – isn't generally done. It would look like an affair, and most people in my life would certainly treat it as one.

I've had many offers to travel for tango with women who are not my life partner. Some have even offered me a prepaid place that I could've claimed by saying nothing more than "yes." However, by the standards of my relationship, culture, region, and whatnot, having said "yes" would have been the same as telling my partner that I'm off to have a romantic adventure. For people with full-time partners, "tango partner = life partner" is usual here, and those in that situation travel only with their life partner, whether the reason is tango or something else.

So, let's also assume that when I am writing here, "tango travel with a dance partner": means "travel with a life partner."

Traveling for Europeans is a very different concept than for North Americans. Driving two hours by car in North America is like going to a local place. In Europe you might cross 3 countries.

As a Canadian you can travel visa free to almost all prominent tango centers in the world. Advantage of being first world citizen.

For me ticket to Paris was far cheaper than ticket to NYC. Almost less than half. You can find good budget hotels with some effort. Airbnb tends to be inexpensive. In city like Paris you will be surprised how much of a steal you can get with Airbnb. If you and your life partner don’t mind 5 hour flight time, you could travel to Europe for tango at much less budget than to west coast from Montreal. USA still has some budget airline connectivity to Europe. I am not sure about Canada.

If you do not mind staying in hostel, you could easily get nice clean shared accommodations in hostel for €15 to €20 a night. European cities have plentiful hostels used by all age groups. They are nice, clean, pleasant places. I know many European dancers who will stay in hostel to attend a festival. I haven’t flown recently but I used to pay $175 to $250 for one way non-stop flight to Europe. My budget would be $400 one way. Anything more was in expensive category.

 

[Bailango]

Surprisingly, no.

My principal coach favors an embrace more like what you see at the Mundial, with space to show off the entire outfit and body of each dancer from all sides (so, more than "a little"), though also with moments where the dancers are close together. My other influential coach dances like that too . . . to the point that when I dance with his wife, they jokingly remark on how I dance closer to her than he does, and they're married. In both cases, their dance is of the "huge strides, big orbiting turns at arm's length, minimal weight-sharing" variety that wouldn't need much adaptation for a tango show. My principal coach has stories about struggling with students who want to dance strictly closed even in movements that are innately open, and the other coach has outright told me that I am better at dancing consistently close than he is, despite him having 30+ years of training at the knee of some big names in tango.

I am surprised at the preference for “not so close embrace” and bigger movements. Most instructors I have taken classes with always preferred more compact movement. Few also taught how to do the same movement in close embrace which is usually done in open hold.

I am wondering what led them to above preferences of not dancing compact close embrace. I have taken one off workshops with several mundial champions. In workshops they all teach close embrace. Not what you seen in the mundial competitors. In fact one of my most memorable embrace experience has been with a follower who won mundial in mid 2010s. It was completely close embrace and was in class settings. We were short of followers.

My working theory is every movements that is innately open can be executed in close embrace. Ofc it requires some modification.

I am trying to jog my memory. All local and visiting instructors I can think of attending workshops, taught in close embrace. Only neuvo instructors taught open hold movements. But some of them also can dance close embrace with no day light.

If a follower tries to create day light or small space between us, I find it surprising. That’s how used to dancing close embrace I am. I also find that in close embrace my right hand fatigues less. Depending on follower’s body type, there could be less space to place palm on her left shoulder/side if embrace opens up. Sometimes needing the palm to be at right angle to the wrist and that can get tiring.

. Both are big on the "breathing embrace" and the idea that transitions from "milonguero" through "salon" to big "nuevo" and "escenario" movements (all in quotes because what the heck do they really mean?) can themselves be expressive elements, done right.

Yeah within same dance you can transition between all that you mentioned above. To me breathing embrace is within the same embrace. Otherwise it is change between close embrace, close hold, and open hold. How you execute a movement is really a choice. Just like what embrace you prefer is a choice.

More often, they remind me of things I saw one time and didn't incorporate into my style.

That is very common.

 

[Bailango]

that it's probably more about "travels to dance so often that it is the norm" vs. "doesn't travel to dance."

This is my experience. As dancers who travel to festivals, the norms are very different than mainstream society. It is common to share room with opposite gender who could be married, single, or in committed relationship. It is considered efficient and saving expenses. That won’t fit from lens of mainstream society where sharing a room with opposite gender would raise eyebrows. Mark it to dancing subculture that what is considered normal, is almost like crossing lines in mainstream society.

Personal attitudes towards acquaintances with opposite gender, once in a committed relationship also differs in USA. That was surprise to me coming from far more conservative culture yet having female friends, both married and unmarried. I was very surprised to find in the USA (NY and California no less) some men who were otherwise very liberal but once they were in a committed relationship, would avoid settings of one on one interaction with female friends. That without prompting from their partner. Kind of self-censorship.

Among dancers it is very common to share rooms including those who are married but attending festival alone.

 

[Bailango]

A few folks I know from Portland drive down to the smaller communities nearby as more of a community building exercise. They are great because when you go to the big city from your tiny or nonexistent tango scene you’ll see them and be welcomed in their milongas. So less Toronto but more like driving down to Kingston to support the university big events or stuff in Ottawa / Gatineau or Quebec City. But once those connections are made, people start WhatsApp groups and what not to coordinate transport. There is even “oh, you want to go to the Eugene Milonga on Fridays from Portland check with XXY”.

Very often the folks that travel for two hours or so will stay with friends in the city for a night or two and drive back. Some will even split up the drive. So you drive an hour, park your car at the closer city with a smaller tango community and all go in one car to the huge city an hour up.

At the big Portland event that ended yesterday ( Valentango ). I chatted with a few folks that stayed at homes of people that they only met once or twice before. Folks in the big cities seem pretty open to letting people crash with them. I remember my swing dancing housemate in Toronto had a bunch of folks stay over often for big events and the fusion fest I’m attending even has a housing coordinator trying to match folks to accommodations.

All of above is fairly common and happens in most places irrespective of type of social dance.

Sometimes you may not even know the other person, but a common dance friend makes an introduction and you have a place to stay for the weekend. Seen it many times that I consider it normal.

 

[Brummbaer]

Most instructors I have taken classes with always preferred more compact movement. Few also taught how to do the same movement in close embrace which is usually done in open hold.

Dance to the music!. Some requires larger movements, in part; other requires compact, sharper, movements. The classic styles frequently reflect the popular music and circumstances of their era of origin and its sound.

I've only come across lessons for novices which concentrate on 'compact' - a very necessary and desirable skill! Beyond that stage they embody interpretation of the music and its mood - sometimes compact; sometimes expansive. You don't have to be bound by some style because time has moved on, we have a wider collection of music, and we're not living in that barrio.

 

[Brummbaer]

In workshops they all teach close embrace.

Because that's what their students need to learn? 'Open' is an easy first-time default, but it can look really messy if they're inexperienced. 'Close' is something which needs to be learned - and then 'open' (as appropriate to the partner, music, style, etc).

My working theory is every movements that is innately open can be executed in close embrace. Ofc it requires some modification.

Yes, you can, but sometimes they're just perceived (visually, and tactily within the partnership) as 'better' if opened (and also vice versa). As you say, modification may be required. Does it have the same impact? Better? Worse? Who's 'watching'?

 

[Tangogal]

London being such a big city and one of the most cosmopolitan, this is surprising to me.

I never attended any festival (local or otherwise), didn’t do any tango traveling, and was going to milonga at rate of many once a month for the first six or seven years. Yet I was exposed to almost all styles and influences, before I traveled and danced.

It’s a long time since I danced tango in London. Then, it was a large scene with multiple milongas on any given night. However, the style at each was exactly the same. Close or v embrace, traditional music and everyone had the same vocabulary of steps. I don’t remember which milongas I attended but they all blurred into one. The only exception was one that had two floors the second dedicated to Nuevo (it was empty). As an unknown follower I got to observe a lot. There was a large crowd and it was very multinational however there were no stand-out dancers. In my own community (at the time) there was always someone to watch when not dancing.

In London I could dance every night with a minimal level of skills. I only needed to recognise the basics. With such a large community there are always new people or visitors passing through so there is no need to develop beyond adequate in order to dance. In a smaller community adequate will get you a few dances with beginners and maybe a tanda or two with friends.