Molinete speed variations?

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#81
Could you please explain this?
We learn early on that albeit we teach students to say 1,2,3 4,5,6 that we (pros) never dance a waltz in 3's. Because of the swing (glide) of the first and second steps, we dance 1,2 3,4 with an invisible weight change which would normally be the 3.

To help me understand this, a music/dance teacher showed me once that a waltz, though written in 3/4 time is phrased in 8s. Listening to a waltz, one can count 123 223 323 423 523 623 723 823 and notice the phrase change. It doesn't happen on 623 as one might expect.

Of course, all songs are different, and there are those that will blow this theory out of the water, but we still dance, even those, in 2s phrasing 8s.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#82
Thanks for the answer.

Hmmm...not convinced...will have to go back and listen to music some more.

Edit to add: How, exactly, are you using the term "phrase?" ;-)
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#83
Now, this has nothing to do with Angel anymore, just my own curiousity.
Here's a valse by Chopin http://www.mfiles.co.uk/scores/waltz-op18-grande-brillante.pdf. (durn ferners spell everything different (this is meant to be self deprercating humor)) One of the predominate patterns in this arrangement is two eighths followed by an quarter note. qqs (or sqq depending where you start)

OK enough of that.

Let's think about doing a molinete while we are doing milonga.
Again, I ask you to think about milonga as a One Step. That is, you are mostly stepping on those most prominent beats.
For purposes of discussion, let's go with that.

Is there a step or steps in the molinete where you are REQUIRED to take a quick step?
I'd say no. Why not take all "slows? It's the difference between dancing a pattern and dancing to the music.

This doesn't mean, of course, that anyone will spank you if you do take quicks.

And it doesn't mean that you couldn't respond to a series of accented notes that are played between the main beats, dancing traspie.
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#84
Thanks for the answer.

Hmmm...not convinced...will have to go back and listen to music some more.

Edit to add: How, exactly, are you using the term "phrase?" ;-)
No problem. I never ask that persons always agree with me.......at first.:rolleyes: JUST KIDDING!

Let's listen to "Lover's Concerto", both the classic version and the R&B remake, "Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot, da-da; Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot, da-da; Dot, da-da-da-da, Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot; and a.....

Assuming you can hear the melody from this mess, count the bars; there are 8 of them before the repeat of the phrase (meaning, for these purposes, a musically significant change/repeat in the song).

Further, take Englebert's "Last Waltz", a favorite social ender in the BR world, "I had the.... last waltz with you, Two lonely people together, I fell in love with you, The last waltz should last forever" .....

Again, consider each bold the beginning of a measure (knowing the song, you would understand that "you" and "together" are 3,2,3 - 4,2,3 and 7,2,3 - 8,2,3 respectively).
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#85
Now, this has nothing to do with Angel anymore,
Thanks for the breather. :peace:

Again, I ask you to think about milonga as a One Step. That is, you are mostly stepping on those most prominent beats.
For purposes of discussion, let's go with that.

Is there a step or steps in the molinete where you are REQUIRED to take a quick step? I'd say no. Why not take all "slows? It's the difference between dancing a pattern and dancing to the music.

And it doesn't mean that you couldn't respond to a series of accented notes that are played between the main beats, dancing traspie.
Agreed, 100%.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#86
Is there a step or steps in the molinete where you are REQUIRED to take a quick step?
I'd say no. Why not take all "slows? It's the difference between dancing a pattern and dancing to the music.
I made sure to pay attention to molinetes this past weekend while dancing. Very possible, and in fact did a number of them, with all the steps as "slows."
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#87
No problem. I never ask that persons always agree with me.......at first.:rolleyes: JUST KIDDING!

Let's listen to "Lover's Concerto", both the classic version and the R&B remake, "Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot, da-da; Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot, da-da; Dot, da-da-da-da, Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot, da-da-da-da; Dot; and a.....

Assuming you can hear the melody from this mess, count the bars; there are 8 of them before the repeat of the phrase (meaning, for these purposes, a musically significant change/repeat in the song).

Further, take Englebert's "Last Waltz", a favorite social ender in the BR world, "I had the.... last waltz with you, Two lonely people together, I fell in love with you, The last waltz should last forever" .....

Again, consider each bold the beginning of a measure (knowing the song, you would understand that "you" and "together" are 3,2,3 - 4,2,3 and 7,2,3 - 8,2,3 respectively).
Since my brain is not wanting to listen to music at 7-something in the morning, at least not by itself, I'll have to pull up those songs and listen to them. Will respond more, later.

Thank you, though, for the explanation.
 

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