Name this dance

Caminito: Thanks for that quotation - it's always reassuring to read words from such a respect-worthy Maestro that say exactly what's in my heart, at the moment!:)

JohnEm: Cheers for the encouragement... I'm actually drawing pretty heavily upon many posts of yours I've read about this situation.

And yup, much of my current motivation is to find my own Tango (which, pragmatically, must have the flexibility that BTM mentioned, given my available partners and 'I will never accept that any dance will automatically be less than the best, just because of certain mechanical differences' approach)... most of what he teaches is good, but I need to hardwire certain of my own preferrences before I go back, before I go too far down his road.

I'm not discouraged at all: there is no doubt that TA is my dance; and even with my, currently, pretty poor technique, there's rarely (from feedback) anybody around who dances to Poema (etc) like they mean it more than I do... I'm pretty much melancholy-made-flesh at the best of times... which these aren't.

BTM: I have yet to be convinced that there is a reliable beat on 1, across most tunes, in Salsa - I found that the most reliable way was to toe-tap on the (usually very easy to hear) 8 (and 4, as it happens), break into the sonic abyss that 1 all too often is, then confirm that I'm on time with the dependable 2... then auto-metronome away, and it's all good.

YMMV, but I consistently found the 8 to be the key (just don't confuse it with the 4!..:p).
 
v22TTC said:
JohnEm: Cheers for the encouragement... I'm actually drawing pretty heavily upon many posts of yours I've read about this situation.
Click to expand...
And thank you for your encouragement, it's good to know that not all of
what I've written has fallen into the bit bucket.

v22TTC said:
I'm not discouraged at all: there is no doubt that TA is my dance; and even with my, currently, pretty poor technique, there's rarely (from feedback) anybody around who dances to Poema (etc) like they mean it more than I do... I'm pretty much melancholy-made-flesh at the best of times... which these aren't.
Click to expand...
The real trick is to be self-aware, even self-critical, enough to know your
limitations and what needs to be worked on in your own time. We might
fundamentally all be constructed the same but we have different abilities,
restrictions, wear and tear etc. Some wear can be repaired, some cannot.
So we have to find an individual way of making the best of what we have
and adding to what we have if we can.

As people on blogs often say, it's a journey. Journeys take time.
 
This is good stuff.....
JohnEm said:
My point is how can tango of the heart and soul be learnt today?

Here is one way, courtesy of a post in the last few hours by Keith Elshaw
on Tango-L which I hope he doesn't mind me posting here:

As time goes by, I see my thinking is not very mainstream.
My path as a social dancer has lead me far away from how things are done
by most people about teaching and giving advice.

For the last few years, my way has been to say to people who come to me
to learn tango, "No one ever took a class in Argentina. You just danced
with your family and friends on the weekend and picked-up things."
It's not something to learn so much as it's something to do.

When I teach, it is informal and social and I try to get people's mind's
to go to the tango dream state. I am really only interested in their bodies
and muscles "learning" things. Well, I want their minds to register which
orquesta is playing and how one can move to them all in a different way.

I recently wrote on my website:

So, it's true ... a lot of what I share with people is a de-bunking of what/how
people learn in traditional tango classes. . . . It's supposed to be more organic
than it is traditionally taught. And I am always talking about the orquestas
and showing how to move with this-or-that kind of music.

Proper body position so leading/following is "automatic" based on what the music
and movement suggests. Nice walks; nice ochos; nice gyros; nice little thingy
when the music slows down; conversation with your partner (leaders "waiting"
for the follower in the right places); stop naturally when the music stops.

And for the sake of completeness, a link to his site with more musings:
http://www.totango.net/

There's lot of relevance in this quote credited to Daniel Trenner:

"Before you learn to dance tango, you first have to learn how to dance.
But some people try to dance tango without going through dance."

Perhaps I'd modify that to first you have to learn how to move and then
learn how to move with a partner.
Click to expand...
Further,
JohnEm said:
Villa Urquiza is a dreamt up name by argentinian professional dancers teaching a so-called elegant style motivated by money.... the tango of its time, being a sort of visual quick fix.
Click to expand...
Been preaching this forever...... ZZzzzzz......
bordertangoman said:
Your perception of Villa Urquiza should be coloured by references such as this...

http://tangovoice.wordpress.com/201...o-estilo-del-centro-versus-estilo-milonguero/

I just think people who say "that style is not as good as the one I do....."

I dont dance VA or milonguero or nuevo or salon I just dance tango
Click to expand...
I believe that John is not bashing VU as a nice way to dance AT, rather that it's newly revered title and tutelage is unfortunately more desired than its essence. I agree with you. I have probably been dancing VU all of my AT life (20+ yrs), but prefer to call it AT... Angel Tango.
 
dchester said:
I've been known to make a post or two, tongue in cheek.
Click to expand...

Yup, and many have made me laugh very hard!:D

I can see how my response could be read in different ways (again...), and one of them's a bit rude: as always, I meant the other one....:)

Re: 'Styles'... I've pretty much got to the point now where the 'Styles' labelling has departed from nearly all meaning... if it ever had any in the first place; 'Social', 'Stage' and something a bit inbetween (subdivided into 'taught to be used responsibly or not') seem to do the job....
 
Angel HI said:
Been preaching this forever...... ZZzzzzz......
Click to expand...
You have?
Angel HI said:
I believe that John is not bashing VU as a nice way to dance AT, rather that it's newly revered title and tutelage is unfortunately more desired than its essence. I agree with you. I have probably been dancing VU all of my AT life (20+ yrs), but prefer to call it AT... Angel Tango.
Click to expand...
Angel Tango is good! At least it's your own.

As for the bashing or not, you're right. Look at old film clips,
some black and white, and you may see the same VU style hold/embrace
by many couples. Look at videos on TangoandChaos, even the still of dancing
in a garage, and mostly you'll see milonguero. There clearly always have been
variations. There is truly no one right way to tango, only individual preference.

I make no secret of the fact that the milonguero embrace is my own preference.
Only part of my resistance to VU is because its wide teaching is permeating
everywhere. I've experienced followers change their beautiful embrace to
the VU arm around the arm, hand on man's back because of some teacher's advice.

One of the appeals of tango is its individuality and difference from all other
dances in hold, style, music and feeling. Jantango summed up VU quite well
as homogenised tango - where is the individuality when everyone dances the same?
 
JohnEm said:
Look at videos on TangoandChaos, even the still of dancing in a garage, and mostly you'll see milonguero.
Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing or anything, but I think the conditions in the garage stills mandate 'milonguero', whether they would prefer something else or not (and hence showing that it's worth knowing, if you want to be a versatile Tanguero/a).
 
v22TTC said:
I'm not disagreeing or anything, but I think the conditions in the garage stills mandate 'milonguero', whether they would prefer something else or not (and hence showing that it's worth knowing, if you want to be a versatile Tanguero/a).
Click to expand...
You would think the conditions at Tango Al Fresco would mandate milonguero
but they didn't largely because it is not what is being taught. I rather believe
that many of the dancers thought they were dancing small despite their sticking out elbows.
Modern VU may be an accessible way for Nuevo dancers to shrink
their footprint on the floor. I have no personal knowledge though.

I was merely using Tango&Chaos as a means to confirm the variations.
Versatility has to be acquired from practice so I do dance with upright dancers
and those of the modern VU style. My preference is milonguero/apilado
and given a choice of dancers it is obvious which I would choose.
 
JohnEm said:
Modern VU may be an accessible way for Nuevo dancers to shrink
their footprint on the floor. I have no personal knowledge though.
Click to expand...

Now that - along with the homogenisation idea - is very interesting!...

The fairly-'traditional' class has been getting increasingly 'large/Neo', whilst the 'we-are-totally-NUEVO!' class has been getting increasingly 'small/milonguero'; I put it down to the available space that each has in its milongas... but now that I think about it - they really are meeting (and stabilising!) at pretty much exactly the same place in the middle....

Rats!:mad:
 
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