New developments, trends over the last decade?

[Rabbit]

For me, the thing that doesn't work well is if I'm not taken by the first song, and am dubious about what might follow, but love the second. By that time, most followers have stopped looking.

It shouldn't happen often if the DJ is good at composing tandas.

When it does happen, I find that musical followers often didn't dance the 1st song either, and start looking around to see whom might be available when the 2nd song starts

 

[JournalInTime]

And that has meant most followers expect a faux cabaceo and are too lazy to be alert or see beyond five feet for cabaceo.

Yes, that trips me up all the time. I'm looking (hopefully not staring) toward the person with whom I'd love to dance, and they're sitting there looking dejected and wearing their "Will I ever get to dance?" face. I'm not getting turned down . . . I'm just not getting their attention at all. Nobody is, except for people who walk right up and ask verbally. Then later, if I know this person, I hear about how I never invite them. Argh.

Further contributing factors are poor light conditions where the lights are dimmed making longer distance cabaceo a challenge, seating and standing arrangements where there is no line of sight without getting closer, poor eye sight.

I do find most milongas in Montréal rather bad on both counts: (1) too dim, and (2) all the tables on two sides that can't see across to one another due to columns and dancers, nor up and down their own side due to the length of the room and crazy angles involved.

If a man had eye sight problem, he can’t indulge in longer distance cabaceo.

My eyesight is the pits, so all of the above irritates me even more because I practically give myself a headache trying to respect the rules.

It is an achievement when it works across 15 or 20 feet irrespective of whether the end result is acceptance or rejection

Yep!

 

[ardix]

Yes, that trips me up all the time. I'm looking (hopefully not staring) toward the person with whom I'd love to dance, and they're sitting there looking dejected and wearing their "Will I ever get to dance?" face. I'm not getting turned down . . . I'm just not getting their attention at all. Nobody is, except for people who walk right up and ask verbally. Then later, if I know this person, I hear about how I never invite them. Argh.

Now, this is interesting. From a follower's perspective, I get puzzled and annoyed by leaders that look at me from the other end of the room and assume that counts as a cabeceo, not trying to actually communicate and extend an invitation with their eyes or a nod, or some sort of acknowledgement of a contact. And then assume they are being rejected (or ignored).

 

[JournalInTime]

Just looking at someone, especially staring at them, isn't a cabeceo. The literal translation is "nodding." I do think that tipping the head instead of nodding, or responding to eye contact with a nonvocalized question on your lips (e.g., "Dance?"), is good enough. But I understand completely when someone gazing from afar gets the wrong results.

But . . . I'm talking about eye contact not happening in the first place. No mirada. Followers whose gaze appears to be on the other followers out dancing, as if envious, or on their phone. Followed by "You never invite me!" on the way out (or the way in at the next event*), which I try to answer with a polite "You never look toward me." And more than once that has garnered a surprised "Oh, I'm supposed to do that?"

It's mostly because so many leaders invite verbally that leaders who don't are out of luck. The blame, such as it is, falls equally on leaders who invite that way and followers who accept. One excellent follower I know has decided not to accept verbal invitations. I wish more would.

* My current strategy is to chat with followers I'm likely to invite. While we're in the cloakroom or I'm on my way past them as I enter, I tell them to look for my gaze. Most do. I managed a cabeceo diagonally across a long, rectangular room with two columns in the way a few weeks ago, entirely because the person I invited knew where I was seated and that I might invite them, and I knew where she was seated and that she was interested in being invited. Call it a verbal pre-invitation off the court (which is fine), followed up visually on the court.

 

[ardix]

It's mostly because so many leaders invite verbally that leaders who don't are out of luck. The blame, such as it is, falls equally on leaders who invite that way and followers who accept. One excellent follower I know has decided not to accept verbal invitations. I wish more would.

I must admit that I accept verbal invitations from my friends. But most of the time this happens because we are at our local, weekly milongas and we just happen to chat or be close to each other when a tanda (that both of us like) starts. But at irregular milongas and events, or when newcomers are present, cabeceo is the rule. However, truth be told, sometimes I feel not so much for dancing but more for watching and enjoying the atmosphere - in which case I choose not to look for cabeceos.

 

[JournalInTime]

Oh, friends are a whole other story! I have tango friends whom I see socially, outside of tango. They ask me, I ask them, it's all chummy, and nobody cares who asked whom, or how. It's no different from them asking me to their place for tea, or me asking them if they want to share a ride someplace.

Then again, we're likely to be seated at the same table, which I think even in the strictest, most traditional case means we're allowed to ask however we like.

I'm strict about the cabeceo when inviting someone whom I don't know at all or whom I know but would have to stroll across a room to invite otherwise. Like the example I gave: My friend was seated diagonally across a big room (well over 10m from me), so I invited her with a cabeceo. A few weeks before, we shared a table and invited each other verbally, but there were no tables free this time.

Of course, not looking for an invitation at all is fair game. As a leader, when I want to ensure that nobody gets the idea that I'm throwing out invitations, I focus on the couples dancing, which puts both the focus and direction of my gaze in the wrong place to invite anyone! (I tend to watch center of mass for quality of lead-follow, and not footwork, so I'm sort of staring at elbows.)

 

[ardix]

... so I'm sort of staring at elbows.

I like the elbow-gazing, do tell more about it

About the cabeceo, another situation comes to my mind: I use to travel a bit in my work and I usually take my shoes with me and try the local milongas. I like the feeling and I like getting to know new communities. But I did notice that most of the time leaders come towards me for making an invitation and the local organizers come and ask verbally. I have always taken this as a way of being polite and attentive to newcomers, not necessarily finding it disturbing.

 

[JournalInTime]

I like the elbow-gazing, do tell more about it

I'm not sure it's that interesting, but:

People watch tango in lots of ways. By far the most common is foot- and leg-watching. I suppose people find the precision or complexity fascinating.

However, the motor for all that – and the communications center between partners – is in the core. It's far harder to fake than unled/unfollowed footwork, and ideally it's subtle and takes real watching to spot. As I'm a technical dancer above all else, that interests me; fancy vocabulary is a lot less interesting to me.

The catch is that another thing people watch is, well, whatever parts they find sexy. It's a little creepy. And of course those parts are mostly around the core.

To avoid having my gaze confused with a creepy one, I move my point of focus off of the torso to the parts nearest to it. As often as not, that ends up being an elbow if the couple is dancing with relaxed arms, elbows pointed floorward (as I prefer . . . I don't watch couples with high, pointy frames). So, I'm not really gazing at the elbows so much as the implicit torso engagement they're expressing.

Anyway, doing that means that my eyes are constantly scanning and focused on something that isn't the tables on the far side of the room.

the local organizers come and ask verbally. I have always taken this as a way of being polite and attentive to newcomers, not necessarily finding it disturbing.

That's different. It's good when organizers and regulars make an effort to welcome new people . . . I wish more of them did that! I still think, though, that the place to do that is the door, cloakroom, bar, etc. "Great to have you here. We'll dance tonight!" followed by a cabeceo a little later is perfect, to my way of thinking. Your mileage may vary!

 

[David_In_CA]

Just looking at someone, especially staring at them, isn't a cabeceo. The literal translation is "nodding." I do think that tipping the head instead of nodding, or responding to eye contact with a nonvocalized question on your lips (e.g., "Dance?"), is good enough. But I understand completely when someone gazing from afar gets the wrong results

I am so disappointed that the standard isn't an elegantly raised eyebrow.

 

[JournalInTime]

I am so disappointed that the standard isn't an elegantly raised eyebrow.

Well, you have issued a challenge . . . now I have to try!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

For me, the thing that doesn't work well is if I'm not taken by the first song, and am dubious about what might follow, but love the second.

I know the feeling.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I'm looking (hopefully not staring) toward the person with whom I'd love to dance, and they're sitting there looking dejected and wearing their "Will I ever get to dance?" face. I'm not getting turned down . . . I'm just not getting their attention at all.

A lot of women up here seem not to understand the cabeceo or not know how to use it or simply fail to be proactive about it. Many are sort of wishy-washy about wanting to dance it seems so they don't *actively* seek out dance partners. Also, too many women sit in groups talking to one another rather than by themselves and looking for a dance partner. Others seem always to be talking in a group. Do they want to dance? Don't want to dance? Should I try to get their attention? It's all a bit chaotic.

 

[Brummbaer]

A lot of women up here seem not to understand the cabeceo or not know how to use it or simply fail to be proactive about it

So, either they know the 'rules' and don't wish to dance with that person, or it's not really a milonga?

Should I try to get their attention?

Well, that's the western way which has evolved. Maybe it needs to be sociable first. It's not always a 'dance market', and strangers aren't to be trusted.

It's all a bit chaotic.

Yes.

 

[ardix]

Just looking at someone, especially staring at them, isn't a cabeceo.

Well, I am wondering whether we are witnessing (or not) the emergence of a new trend ...one in which the leaders are doing the mirada and expect the followers to take initiative as well and extend the invitation.

 

[JournalInTime]

Well, I am wondering whether we are witnessing (or not) the emergence of a new trend ...one in which the leaders are doing the mirada and expect the followers to take initiative as well and extend the invitation.

This might be . . . I find it hard to say, given my eyesight. Last night at the milonga, I tried to invited not one but two people from across the (dim) room, and failed. I never did dance with them. Today I feel bad. But I'm not sure where failure occurred.