Newbie here...go easy on me, ok? ;-)

[Mladenac]

I would leave out D'Arienzo for the beginning cause it could be too fast and it would quite difficult to dance it.
I believe that he has enough songs for listening and training the ear.

I would recommended that you focus on music first and the most basic elements:
dancing - walking in front of partner, walking aside partner, paralel and cross system walking, cross, ochos,
musicality - walking on the beat, pauses, using melody, varying the beat slower and faster (leading cross in cross system using double time(faster))

There are a lot intricacies in what I wrote above.

Here you can various concepts explained. Be careful not to go to advanced level.
http://www.youtube.com/user/oscaracasas

PS. It's quite difficult to learn without a good teacher.
And always try to make dancing comfortable for you and your partner.

 

[dchester]

I would leave out D'Arienzo for the beginning cause it could be too fast and it would quite difficult to dance it.
I believe that he has enough songs for listening and training the ear.

I would recommended that you focus on music first and the most basic elements:
dancing - walking in front of partner, walking aside partner, paralel and cross system walking, cross, ochos,
musicality - walking on the beat, pauses, using melody, varying the beat slower and faster (leading cross in cross system using double time(faster))

There are a lot intricacies in what I wrote above.

Here you can various concepts explained. Be careful not to go to advanced level.
http://www.youtube.com/user/oscaracasas

PS. It's quite difficult to learn without a good teacher.
And always try to make dancing comfortable for you and your partner.

I guess I always found D'Arienzo easy to dance to when I was a beginner. Especially for walking. If you prefer slow stuff, Rodriguez is another artist that is good.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Shall try social dancing soon. I know the first time will always be intimidating, no matter how long I wait.

I will sometimes go and check out a place with no intention of dancing. By doing this you will get a read on the local community: what kinds of "moves" people do, and what songs or types of songs are being played.

It was interesting to look at the classes being taught at the tango festival here in Portland last week: either beginner, or "advanced" or "masters." Maybe everyone has gotten really, really good since I stopped going every week. Maybe they are all dancing to the music now! Or...

Anyhow let me add, though, that often I will end up dancing when I go to check a place out.

Social dancing is fun.

Well, it is in country western for sure. AT can be a mixed bag. Maybe people want to discuss that one?

 

[Gssh]

[quote="Tango321, post: 970097, member: 60099]Can you'll recommend some music to listen to, for beginners. Also, if there is no basic step, how do I structure the dance? For every eight count, is there always not a "cross" and a "resolution"?[/quote]

Music for practice and to get used to tango: This basically covers all the greatest hits of the genre: http://www.mandragoratango.com/music/2008/05/10/BestOfTango.zip
is a nice compilation, and in general his whole blog is nice if you are interested
in a tango musicians perspective on music: http://www.mandragoratango.com/blog.php

Re: Structure of the dance: simply don't worry about right now. The way people think about tango is basically the reverse of how they think about salsa: In salsa the basic count teaches people that the clave creates an accent on the beginning of the 8 and the middle of the 8, and depending on stlye you have a basic way to use that accent in your dance, and after we have that down we learn that we don't have to accent there, but can also accent other places, or drop the accent, or whatever.
The people who use the "walking" image for tango think the basic idea is to learn to walk straight on the beat, and once we can do that we can put in accent wherever we want. So in some ways the tango basic step is just one step, like 1 1 1 1 1 1...., and then we layer whatever we want use to work with the accents in the music on top of that.
Another reason that people tend to recommend not thinking about figures too much is that the main problem with tango as a social dance for beginners is how to navigate the ronda. Staying in the flow of the dancefloor is tricky for everybody, and longer figures run the risk of running the couple aground.
So the 8 count basic is a practice tool that offers a collection of common steps and common transitions: stepping in 4 directions, the cross as a nice accent (it accents the 5), and the resolution/pause/weightshift at the end of the pattern is another nice accent - it accents the _next_ 1. So yes, accenting the 1 and 5 is a great (by using cross and resolution) works well, but because the whole dancefloor is moving we may be able to use some ways to accent things some times, and other things other times, and in other cases we might have to forego accents in favour of navigating the dancefloor.

In general to feel comfortable and have fun i think it is more important to stay in the flow of the dancefloor than anything else.

My "Survival at a Milonga for extreme beginners" vocabulary is:

1) Walking forward
2) pausing while collected
3) pausing while open
4) rockstep

this will get people around the dancefloor, have the pauses to accent things in the music, and the rockstep is the universal tool for waiting, turning, changing direction, and so on. Rocksteps are much easier than turns for these purposes because turns are tricky to get out of and lead when using them as a navigation tool (getting out at the followers side step is easy, in the front and back step requires a bit more and different technique, and some followers have preconcieved notions of how many steps the turn is going to be and are not easily dissuaged).

To get more variety in ones walk the easiest tool is to walk in different directions:
1) Walk forward
2) Walk in a sawtooth pattern towards the middle of the dancefloor (while staying in ones own lane). e.g walking diagnoally towards the middle, getting close to the inside edge of the lane, and then a sidestep to get back to the outer edge of ones own lane (this is also how i recommend the 8CB should be danced if one has to - it migates a lot of the problems of the figure and makes it move around the dancefloor reasonably well)
3) walk in a sawtoodth pattern towards the edge of the dancefloor - exactly the same thing, but with walking towards the edge and sidestep to the middle
4) curving everything.

Basically, tango does not have to be Stationary figure - straight line walking - stationary figure-straight line walking, but the path one takes can look like the doodles people draw on the edge of notepaper in boring meetings - curls, and wiggles, and zigzags.

Gssh

 

[Tango321]

Thank you for all the wonderful input, you guys are amazing.

Opendoor, thanks for the links; the link
Alexiou´s ...
that you provided is a lovely song. I came across this video on youtube of tango to the same song. I cannot post the link ( less than 10 posts), but take a look at the first hit with search phrase "tango en la boca". I know it kind of a show...but I wanted to know what you guys/tango aficionados thought of this dance.
And I actually said "Shall try social dancing soon", not "Shall I try social dancing soon". But, I think I only said that because I didn't quite know how big of a mess I am into, before I joined this board ;-)

Thank you Mldenac and dchester for the music recommendations. I'll look through the concepts link, I think this will really help me. Dchester, do you have the full name of the artist you mentioned, Rodriguez?

Steve Pastor, I like your strategy of checking out the places just to get a feel. My only experience is with Salsa, and social dancing is a ton of fun in Salsa and a great way to meet people too.

Salsa music played during the evening can be classified as fun, playful music. To me, tango sounds very different, a bit more serious perhaps (or sounds like it due to my very limited exposure to it). I really don't know what to expect for tango socials here in SoCal and look forward to the experience. I have heard before that the tango crowd is very cultured, classy crowd.

Gssh, thank you so much for your insightful post. I loved the zip file you linked, some amazing music in there. I will need to focus on the walk videos, I'll also ask my instructor is he could show this in class for this week. He hasn't covered this at all, so I feel like something fundamental is being missed.

I have another couple of things I need some input on, from you guys:

So, with a practice partner, I feel that progress will be a bit easier. When you'll were getting started, did you'll just ask someone in class for practice, or did you just improve by dancing socially? Also, do you guys think it is a good idea to have a married woman as a practice partner?


One more thing, how do I lead the back ocho from the cross?

Thanks again for the solid input, appreciate the help.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

I have another couple of things I need some input on, from you guys:

So, with a practice partner, I feel that progress will be a bit easier. When you'll were getting started, did you'll just ask someone in class for practice, or did you just improve by dancing socially? Also, do you guys think it is a good idea to have a married woman as a practice partner?


One more thing, how do I lead the back ocho from the cross?

Thanks again for the solid input, appreciate the help.

When I got started, someone I met at a practica asked me to be his practice partner. That guy had a few practice partners, some of them were married women. If you are only interested in dancing and practicing, there should not be a problem.

How do you lead a back ocho from the cross? more or less the same way you lead it from anywhere else. Stay in cross system, lead a pivot and a back step. Tadaam -- back ocho.

 

[Mladenac]

The name of rodriguez is Enrique:

Here are some example tandas:
http://tandaoftheweek.blogspot.com/search/label/Enrique Rodriguez

 

[pascal]

on the banks of the Seine
...
graceful and elegant, and the music felt amazing

Strange. Usually the tango music can hardly be heard at all because of the ambiant noise and the louder music from the other dances around (salsa, mainly).
Graceful and elegant, well I guess there must have been a lot of foreigners on the floor this day.

About DVDs I'd say they have inspirationnal value but you cannot really learn from them, even if they've not been created by a mere ballroom teacher ("And after our #37 DVD about kizomba, here comes our #38 DVD about tango argentino milonguero autentico de Buenos Aires", next month do not miss our #39 DVD about Tektonik, 40% discount if you buy more than ten DVDs)

 

[NZ_Guy]

I did not quite get the concept about practicing the steps individually. Can you please clarify a bit?
Regarding the "sandwich" this is what we have been taught:

Can you'll recommend some music to listen to, for beginners. Also, if there is no basic step, how do I structure the dance? For every eight count, is there always not a "cross" and a "resolution"?

This is the gancho step we have been taught, from the back ocho

There are no universally agreed upon steps in this dance.. just what you lead. That said, (imho) the 8 step basic does contain eight useful steps that will help you get around the floor. I assume the basic step you refer to is the 8 step basic. Just treat it as a bag of steps and not a move/figure/sequence. So practice step 1. Practice step 8. Practice step 4 and so on. Don't practice steps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 in a joined sequence. You could try joining those steps in different combinations from time to time.

When you practice, try varying the way you do each step.. long, short, slow, quick, abrupt/sharp, smooth, accelerating, decelerating, accelerating then decelerating, in a straight line, in a tight curve, with a sharp change of direction, inline with your partner, outside your partner (she's on your right), inside your partner (she's on your left), forwards, backwards, in parallel system (you step with right, she with left and vice-versa), in cross system (you step with right, she also with right) [Just think how many permutations -options- you now have with just a walking step!]. When you start social dancing you'll find that some of these variations will be prove more appropriate than others for the music and floor traffic.

Trust me, and the others; leave the gancho for now.

If you can do your sandwich thing is a way that's musically appropriate, I see no harm in it. I can't, so I don't. Don't do anything if you can't make it fit hand in glove to the music - this is why it's easiest to simply walk when you start out.

If you listen to tango music, you'll find that a resolution might be appropriate after 4 beats, 8 or 16 beats, or any multiple of 2 really.. the traditional music usually builds up to a cadence, so it's predictable, even if it isn't regular (it might not be every 4/8/16 beats or bars, except perhaps in valses). Typically a decelerating step into a pause (breathe, relish the moment!) is a good way to resolve. A cross, might be appropriate for a staccato resolution - such as is often found at the end of traditional tangos.

Tango music from the around the 1940s is easy to dance to because all the new phrases are blatantly foreshadowed, because it was written for dancers. But whatever music you listen to (non tango, tango, whatever), get used to following the phrases, and separating out the various instruments (listen to just the strings in one phrase, then listen to just the bass in another phrase, next the guitar, back to the bass, and so on). As you listen pay attention to the varying loudness/softness of the instrument, and whether it's being rhythmic or melodic in that phrase. Make a judgement call on the mood of the music, because you'll want to recreate that mood with the quality of your steps when you dance.

I hope all of that isn't intimidating.. it's not meant to be. Good luck.

So, with a practice partner, I feel that progress will be a bit easier. When you'll were getting started, did you'll just ask someone in class for practice, or did you just improve by dancing socially? Also, do you guys think it is a good idea to have a married woman as a practice partner?.

The danger with practice partners is that you start compensating for each other, and it makes it difficult to dance with other people, which is the whole point of tango I think. I suppose having an experienced tanguera as partner would be very beneficial, but I'm not sure you'd be able, yet, to determine who is genuinely good as opposed to just visually impressive and I'm not sure why an advanced dancer would commit to practising with a complete beginner...

 

[opendoor]

..Alexiou´s Tango Ts Nefelis, ...

..you provided a lovely song. I came across this video on youtube... I cannot post the link, but take a look at the first hit with search phrase "tango en la boca"....but I wanted to know what you guys/tango aficionados thought of this dance

That´s Juan Segui a really talented and up-coming artist. The style is called "tango de escenario": only choreo, no leading-and-following, rather open hold, no walking, dancing on the spot or en-linea, a lot of figures and poses. Nothing you actually should practice, yet. Speaking frankly, two years ago I copied that choreo. But please, let it not go any further

 

[Tango321]

Appreciate the input from you guys.

Lilly of the valley, thanks for the input regarding practice. For the back ocho from cross, I was not pivoting her (or not being clear with the lead), so that's where the problem was, I think.

Pascal, you live in Paris? I'm envious ;-) It's a badass city, loved it.

NZ_guy, some solid and well-thoughtout tips there, thank you. And the married girl is actually also a beginner like me.

Opendoor, yes, that choreo looks slick.

Btw, there is this series I have been checking out on youtube, someone recommended it to me at class. I used search word "Dario's Tango Guide". Is this a good series for a beginner to start off on?

 

[Mladenac]

Slick or not, that is tango escenario, and it's not danceable at milonga, and even Opendoor told you to forget it.
IMHO Tango escenario is only good for attracting people to social dancing.

It's seems that you missed the point in the previous posts.
Dario's Tango guide is not good for beginners. It shows you pattern without detailed explanation.

When you practice try to lead several followers the same basic element.
We told you what to do several times.
You have enough material to practice and music to listen.
It will be more helpful to ask specific problem you have with certain partners
e.g. walking, embrace, how to lead sth, height difference.
The most important thing is to describe style (embrace and walking) predominant in your area so that the advice you hear here will be beneficial.
Everything is correct as long as helps you adapt the follower.

When you start writing what you are doing and what's your problem it will be easier to help you.
To point you to some video example or to tell you what to concentrate on.
The more specific you are the better response you will receive.
In addition to that you will develop dancing awareness which is crucial for improvisational dancing.

 

[opendoor]

..seems that you missed the point in the previous posts. Dario's Tango guide is not good for beginners. It shows you pattern without detailed explanation...

I totally agree: to learn patterns means to learn from the wrong direction. Therefore I also should criticize your "teachers". That really does not sound professionally at all. I know, that these didactics still are around: but it takes three times as long to become a social-dance-ready dancer, if at all. In so far it was much too expensive. Social dance is the yardstick. In performance dance (escenario) only the girl has to learn the routine. On the contrary: A social dancer is able to lead a beginner all that shown stuff. Speaking philosophically: I´m a materialist, not a formalist. First you have to go through the body work, the core strengthening, the building of the body structure, isolation, torsion, programming of the cerebellum, the leading principles. This enables you to create every sort of acrobatics simply by understanding the mechanical principles. But it makes no sense to do it the other way round. That simply was sketchy mimicry.

You may combine either method. But speaking frankly, it would not help to accelerate your development as I wrote before.

Perhaps you could post where you actually are located so that members can recommend a teacher with a deeper understanding near by? A private lesson with a female teacher may also help to save time and money.

By the way. We share the same situation. I am learning bandoneón and always trying to figure out some advanced arrangements. But my teacher always remembers me to play simple melodies. How boring, actually!!

 

[AndaBien]

... "Dario's Tango Guide". Is this a good series for a beginner to start off on?

No, it isn't, unless you want to waste lots of time, to become a poor dancer. There are some good points in it, but you might not realize how good they are until you've learned quite a bit already. And that "basic step", you'll probably never see it done on the dance floor. If you do, you'll know the guy is a complete beginner with a poor teacher.

You should find a good, qualified teacher, who wants you to learn the correct way to dance socially, not to just take your money while teaching you fancy steps.

 

[UKDancer]

..."Dario's Tango Guide". Is this a good series for a beginner to start off on?

I agree that it is not, and for the reasons already given. BTW, the Alex Krebs video instruction I mentioned at the beginning of this discussion is fundamentally different in approach. He uses figures (or typical actions) in order to illustrate an underlying principle, rather than as an end in themselves.