No DanceSport at the 2020 Olympics :(

[bia]

What percentage of dancers constitute the want and the opposition, I don't know, and I don't think wooh does either unless there's some survey (s?)he is privy to.

I have no idea as to the numbers. I would bet (again, without any but anecdotal support) that a lot of people who support the idea enough to sign a petition when distributed to them (especially if they're social rather than competitive members of USA Dance) didn't analyze the issue beyond "Hey, ballroom dancing is great and deserves more recognition, and if it gets in the Olympics, that'll show that the world respects it!"

 

[JudeMorrigan]

From the responses here, at least, it doesn't seem to be a reactive, "NOTHING MUST CHANGE" attitude, as a "heeeeyyyy, we're going to lose too many things that make this sport/art fun, exciting, unique, and accessible, without much more result than - hey, we're an oympic sport!" It feels very 1. Olympic sport 2. ???? 3. Profit!

The only thing I'd add to this is that I think there's a healthy measure of skepticism on many of our parts that that result is even achievable. If I believed there was a legit chance that the efforts to get the sport into the Olympics would succeed, I would at the very least be more accepting of the idea that the goal might be worth the potential sacrifices. But as is, I worry that the pursuit buys us and will continue to buy us drama, politics and tangible negative impacts that filter down to the non-elite dancers without ever even achieving the putative goal.

 

[scullystwin42]

I would agree. Thanks for adding that.

 

[Joe]

At least in gymnastics, you have different ways to compete and have a satisfactory competitive career, even if you aren't going to be an elite, or even a college gymnast.

But are there opportunities for the 50-60 year old gymnast to compete?

 

[scullystwin42]

But are there opportunities for the 50-60 year old gymnast to compete?

Hmmm, not that I know of. Good point.

 

[Dancing Irishman]

Hmmm, not that I know of. Good point.

To be fair, gymnastics movements are probably higher risk to older bodies than ballroom dance movements. I'm especially thinking of uneven bars, balance beam, and vault when I think of ways gymnastics competitions could go horribly wrong for a 50-60 year old gymnast (I'm picturing a higher risk of fractures both in training and in competition). I think ballroom's emphasis on well-executed basics uniquely positions it to be available as a competitive activity for a broader age range (since there is not a competitive environment pressure to do multiple flips like gymnastics or triple spins while wearing ice skates). I could be totally wrong on the injury risk for older gymnasts, and welcome someone to educate me if that's the case.

 

[j_alexandra]

An interesting perspective.
http://www.delta.dance/2015/06/just-say-enough-already/

 

[raindance]

An interesting perspective.
http://www.delta.dance/2015/06/just-say-enough-already/

Thanks for posting that.

 

[IndyLady]

An interesting perspective.
http://www.delta.dance/2015/06/just-say-enough-already/

Very persuasive and well-written article (as someone who has not really followed the ballroom dance Olympic quest). The more I read, both this and the posts on this forum, the more I am genuinely inclined to think that Olympic recognition is not a desirable goal at this time.


Randomly:

When was the last time you saw Judo, athletic Wrestling (not WWF!) on TV?

Pssst, it's WWE now. They finally lost the lawsuit filed by the World Wildlife Fund. Several years ago.

Heads now bend back so far they almost touch the floor. Other gymnastic-type movements that have no relationship to the character of the dance simply leave professionals wondering what’s going on.

This. Although it's outside of ballroom (so technically off-topic), I'm not a fan of all the flips and other gymnastics that are becoming mainstays in contemporary, hip hop, and the DWTS routines. I enjoy gymnastics, but when I'm watching dance, I want to see dancing, not acrobatics.


Re the WDSF, WDC, USA Dance, NDCA.... I have to confess I have never been up to speed on all this, it is all so confusing, some day I'm going to have to ask for a 101 explanation of each organization and how they fit together.

 

[raindance]

Re the WDSF, WDC, USA Dance, NDCA.... I have to confess I have never been up to speed on all this, it is all so confusing, some day I'm going to have to ask for a 101 explanation of each organization and how they fit together.

I can't give a full 101. But a few general points to help orient you:

NDCA is the US organization that is part of the WDC (an international organization - famous comps include Blackpool)

USA Dance is the US organization that is part of the WDSF (an international organization - they are fighting to get into the Olympics)

[My use of "part of" is casual - I don't know the proper term for the association between the respective organizations.]

In the US, NDCA has the comps we tend to think of as Pro/Am, and Pro, though there are some amateur events at their competitions as well.

USA Dance has previously run mostly Am/Am events, but recently added teacher/student, which is similar (but maybe not identical) to pro/am. USA Dance also runs social chapters that host local social dances, etc.

Dancers (including pros, and judges) in many countries have been forced to choose one organization or another for competitions.

If you re-read the blog post with that much info in mind, it may help it make more sense.

 

[Bailamosdance]

The 'gymnastic' ballroom 'style' is the straw man argument. the fact of the matter is that as ballroom evolves, there are always people who want more of whatever they do. If you look on youtube and look at ballroom even 20 yesrs ago, you see a real difference. And when you look at the folks 40 or 50 years ago, it is extremely different...

 

[Miss Silly]

That was an interesting article, from the WDF side. Is there a similar article from the WDSF side out there? I'm curious to hear more from both sides of the arguments.

(I'm still trying to make sense of it all too LOL)

 

[ajiboyet]

An interesting perspective.
http://www.delta.dance/2015/06/just-say-enough-already/

After all, the WDSF is operated entirely by people who are not in the business of dance — none of the presidium members make their living from dance — so why should they be telling professionals how to run their business?

Wait...what?

 

[Dancing Irishman]

The 'gymnastic' ballroom 'style' is the straw man argument. the fact of the matter is that as ballroom evolves, there are always people who want more of whatever they do. If you look on youtube and look at ballroom even 20 yesrs ago, you see a real difference. And when you look at the folks 40 or 50 years ago, it is extremely different...

Not necessarily true. While yes, ballroom has evolved in many ways (for the better), it's always (or at least for the last 30-odd years) evolved in a system in which prior world finalists and champions are providing ordinal rankings of the current dancers based on whatever holistic criteria they use (which they probably can never articulate into a consolidated, numerical framework).

Changing the scoring system (like the WDSF apparently has done) from ordinal to points within a range by category forces judges to change how they're ranking couples, or at least forces them to provide a rationalization for how they rank them. Without knowing the details of the scoring system, I can't say if it takes certain things away or provides outsized incentives to make the dancing more athletic, but I wouldn't be totally surprised. I think there is a clearly noticeable difference in the top couples of the WDSF vs. the WDC in standard, and I suspect that is attributable to changes in who the judges are and what they're required to score on (I'm personally partial to Arunas and Katusha more so than any other couple recently competing, so I think we know where my biases are). It's not a straw man argument to say that a change in the structure of the rewards system for competitors can cause a change in how the dancing evolves in a way that may not mesh with the way it's evolved for the past 50 years.

 

[danceronice]

I think ballroom's emphasis on well-executed basics uniquely positions it to be available as a competitive activity for a broader age range (since there is not a competitive environment pressure to do multiple flips like gymnastics or triple spins while wearing ice skates).

Triple jumps. Triple spins are for babies. (Even my thirty-seven-year-old, creaky-kneed self can rotate a spin three times.) There are enough adults who skate for USFS to offer a separate test track and some competitions, where the judging standards allow for decreased speed and power. But there's definitely always an aura of 'why are you here?' towards adult skaters. Even when you CAN perform to a reasonably high level, since you have absolutely no chance of even competing at a regional level on a standard track, coaches and clubs kind of think of you as a bit of an oddball at best.