Not sure what to do next

[Brummbaer]

MiradaMiranda, JournalinTime, and Brummbaer: I feel like the thread drifted to what is being worn now, and that it's the modern era. That's great. This thread is about helping Alora get dances. What attire best accomplishes this goal for her?

Whatever fits in and feels comfortable for partner dancing There's no prescriptive attire, except by the society you attend. I don't think we should be telling anyone what's suitable attire for the situation. However, if you're sharing a close connection with a dance partner, they are part of that consideration.

There are arguments both for standing out and blending in - and whether that matters. But, as Dirty Dancing pointed out: Nobody puts baby in the corner. If you're not noticed (e.g. you're in the dark, in the corner, hidden in plain site amongst the others, 'invisible'...) then few are going to notice to invite, or be invited. That's all about social skills and engaging. If you want to dance, then the days of ironing a seat waiting for some gallant solo to cabeceo from afar have long gone.

 

[Brummbaer]

OP would learn faster if she doesn’t limit her experience building with the ideal male partner in milongas. Instead of searching high and low for a male practice partner, that befriending a woman learning to lead in practicas and even swapping

I'll disagree slightly at this stage about learning to lead, but I do agree that the sisterhood can help.

 

[opendoor]

...What attire best accomplishes this goal for her?

I don't doubt in the slightest that Alora knows the rules and knows how to dress to her best advantage. However, the sociological composition of the local tango students and alumni sometimes places insurmountable limits on even the prettiest follower.

 

[Alora]

I’ve read all of your posts and they’ve been really helpful, thank you

I think I’m okay about what to wear as well as shoes…I’ve spent a lot of time sitting watching some beautifully dressed ladies dance, believe me!

I’m thinking about your advice about learning to lead as another option.

My teacher does not lead but she knows the steps to teach. She says that leading is hard for women as they don’t have the upper body strength, reach or height for floorcraft. She says that to lead would interfere with her following skills. However, she is stunningly attractive and learnt to dance in her twenties…

I’m 5 foot and, after trying to lead a female ballroom partner, I found it extremely difficult as I lacked height, arm length and the innate male skill to lead and obey floor craft rules against 6 foot leads.

Funnily enough the new school that I’m trying tonight insists on teaching lead and follow…they may change their mind when see how petite I am!

I will check the Argentine Tango Association map for other places to go.

I’m looking forward to the new class on Sunday with Tanquito..Bruno

 

[pianistamediano]

My teacher does not lead but she knows the steps to teach. She says that leading is hard for women as they don’t have the upper body strength, reach or height for floorcraft. She says that to lead would interfere with her following skills. However, she is stunningly attractive and learnt to dance in her twenties…

I’m 5 foot and, after trying to lead a female ballroom partner, I found it extremely difficult as I lacked height, arm length and the innate male skill to lead and obey floor craft rules against 6 foot leads.

Funnily enough the new school that I’m trying tonight insists on teaching lead and follow…they may change their mind when see how petite I am!

You might be restricted to close embrace with followers that aren't too different in terms of height and open embrace with everyone else, but if that's fine for you then it's all good.

Leading generally doesn't interfere with following; maybe some confusion when switching between mindsets, which is natural because they are quite different, but that's all I can think of.

Unless, of course, you lead long enough and don't follow enough such that your following skills atrophy over time — which happens for essentially every skill in the world when you don't practise regularly!

All I can say is that ballroom is very different from tango, as you should already know.

Floorcraft isn't just about yourself, it's about every single couple on the pista. Even one or two couples gone awry can spoil the experience for everyone. It's a community effort.

And please don't speak about rules; they are more of guidelines that are good to follow, but the fundamental principle is respect for your fellow dancers.

If there is adequate space, you can step backwards all you want, go in and out of the centre, even dance clockwise. They only really start to matter beyond a critical density of dancers. Even then, it's acceptable to do something like overtake a dawdling couple, if it's in the interests of the maintaining the flow.

 

[JournalInTime]

Relative leg length is also an issue the other way around. Women have typically proportionally longer legs than men.

Not by much, if at all:

Leg length sex difference

Who has proportionally longer legs, men or women? Intuitively people assume that women's legs are proportionally longer but that is mostly a misconception. As seen in the graph attached to this article the crotch height (inseam) to body height ratio is almost identical between men and women...

misconceptions.fandom.com

It's very close to the same. It's just that long legs are emphasized by women's fashion, so people tend to assume that corresponds to proportionally longer legs.

(Btw, those bootie flats… I’d love to get my hands on a pair but I can’t find any.)

Regina sells them via their online store. The place where I used to work did a lot of business with Regina. They're reliable. (No, I don't get a commission.)

 

[Brummbaer]

My teacher does not lead but she knows the steps to teach. She says that leading is hard for women as they don’t have the upper body strength, reach or height for floorcraft. She says that to lead would interfere with her following skills. However, she is stunningly attractive and learnt to dance in her twenties…

I’m 5 foot and, after trying to lead a female ballroom partner, I found it extremely difficult as I lacked height, arm length and the innate male skill to lead and obey floor craft rules against 6 foot leads.

Funnily enough the new school that I’m trying tonight insists on teaching lead and follow…they may change their mind when see how petite I am!

Interesting. I wouldn't say it's impossible; just physically different with a different mindset (attitude?). Certainly build/'bulk' appears as a factor for many, but there are more petite females who can lead well. It's just another skill you may, or may not, wish to learn.

innate male skill to lead and obey floor craft rules

Dance in London (and other places)! Floorcraft sometimes seems unknown (search the forum!) Certainly not 'innate' in many males! Some male 'hotshots' seem completely unaware of others. They have the hot sequence they learned which they have to execute irrespective of who's there. It's about dancing in the space available. Small steps when required. Dancing in place. Moving forward, given space. Interpreting the musical - lyrical, generally, with larger steps; rhythmic, fast, generally, with smaller steps. Have you come across corridas yet (a short sequence of running steps)?

I will check the Argentine Tango Association map for other places to go.

It's a starter. Sadly FB, or Google, is often better in some locations. Tango timetable (a website - mostly northern England, but also some far away, and FB group - more data) is sometimes good. The problems of getting tango teachers and groups to agree, and even to advertise their presence, or dates, and events makes herding cats look easy and more satisfying.

Hope you enjoy your lesson. Get on his WhatsApp group. Recently had a video with good comments from several students (well, you wouldn't publish anything negative, would you?). I think there are still some videos on YT of lessons from COVID times.

 

[JournalInTime]

MiradaMiranda, JournalinTime, and Brummbaer: I feel like the thread drifted to what is being worn now, and that it's the modern era. That's great. This thread is about helping Alora get dances. What attire best accomplishes this goal for her?

Discussing what to wear seems relevant! Someone new to tango isn't going to have the full picture on what footwear, fashion, etc. is available, common, and expected for tango dancers. I am thankful that two years in, one of my teachers recommended tango trousers and a specific shoe (heel) type to me, because it made a measurable difference in how I dance. Restrictive trousers block proper leg posture, the wrong shoes hurt your body, and being poorly dressed can harm your chances of getting to dance.

Which said, we agree:

Alora, I'd suggest using the milongas themselves as a guide for what is best to wear. If the ladies getting more dances are wearing dresses, that's probably the best way to go.

My inner punk rocker hates the truth of this, but tango is an environment where following the trend pays off. If people where you dance where dresses, wear a dress. If they wear Maximilian plate armor, armor up.

USA West Coast

Some people here just got back from a big event there. Apparently, they found it interesting in part because people in that region seem to have a "big night out for ladies and gents" view of tango that's absent here, where it's more "casual social club." Good to know the difference!

 

[JournalInTime]

How perfect a description of how I got into tango!

She's just brilliant in general. I wish more touring teachers would tell people to ditch the romance and the look, and focus on dancing.

 

[JournalInTime]

Have you danced with taller/heavier followers?

Two of my favorites are taller than me (I am 179cm tall), and a third is both taller and heavier than me. All heights before heels! My strength and grounding mean the dance isn't significantly different for me until we get to leg entanglements, whereupon I have to do a lot of rapid recalibration to avoid danger.

Most of what you listed is about height/weight, but I still find dancing w/ followers who are taller/heavier than me different than it is to dance with a man

Distribution (arms, chest, abdomen, hips, thighs, etc.) and makeup (bone, muscle, fat, connective tissue) of weight both matter, too. These differ significantly between men and women. I occasionally dance with a man who is smaller than me, who has bulging chest and arm muscles, no "man boobs," and no appreciable fat below the waist. Women of the same general height and weight typically carry more muscle in the legs and less in the upper body, and more weight in the rear end and thighs. They also have proportionally shorter arms.

 

[opendoor]

..I wish more touring teachers would tell people to ditch the romance and the look, and focus on dancing.

I wish not! She represents an extremely one-sided view. And more importantly, it's not mine. And if she were honest, she would have to admit that she earned her money through show, gimmicks, and glitter.

 

[JournalInTime]

She represents an extremely one-sided view.

Yes. However, it's the side that almost never gets any attention, so I think it's important that she's sharing it. You can find people who disagree or represent the opposite stance easily . . . too easily, in my opinion. Her viewpoint in this video and in general is very hard to find, and no less valid than its rivals. New dancers need to hear both sides and decide where they are on that spectrum.

And more importantly, it's not mine.

You aren't a new dancer!

 

[opendoor]

How perfect a description of how I got into tango!

How perfect a description of how I got into tango, too.
"Tango found me". The tango led me as if I was remotely controlled right into a milonga and I just danced.

 

[JournalInTime]

And if she were honest, she would have to admit that she earned her money through show, gimmicks, and glitter.

I believe that touring dancers who both perform and teach should be honest about saying, "Here's what I do as a show dancer," "Here's what you want to do as a social dancer," and most important, "These two things aren't the same." I don't know her well enough to say if she's good about that. But new dancers need to hear early on that what they see in live and recorded demos and shows has almost nothing to do with social tango.

Tango is strangely weird about hiding this crucial distinction. Guitar teachers don't teach new musicians to play the guitar upside down with their teeth, and flight instructors don't teach new pilots to fly aerobatics, but for some reason touring tango teachers try to teach new dancers to put on the tango equivalent of such antics.

 

[Brummbaer]

I wish not! She represents an extremely one-sided view. And more importantly, it's not mine. And if she were honest, she would have to admit that she earned her money through show, gimmicks, and glitter.

Your's is also a 'one-sided view'

Nothing wrong with earning your money that way. And, from the videos I've seen of her teaching, she does a really good job.

Performers that I've come across, and with whom we've had lessons, can and do differentiate between stage and social. Do you really think 'social dance' alone would present the attraction to AT? It's mainly when they see social tango that they question 'ballroom' and stage tango.