Not touchy feely

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Do the leaders out there have an algorithm for how many Tandas they let their wife sit before asking her? Ask each Tanda she is sitting? Every other one? N = divide the number of women by the number of men and dance with her every Nth tanda? Mr. Technical here has asked DW for an algorithm, but can't get a straight answer on it!

Each couple decides that for themselves. There is no rule. A common arrangement is to dance the first and the last tanda together, plus some special tandas in between (such as her/his favorite music, milonga/vals tanda, Pugliese, etc). Some want to mingle even more, and dance just one or two tandas together.
Talk with your spouse. Whatever works for both of you will be fine.

 

[rain_dog]

Do the leaders out there have an algorithm for how many Tandas they let their wife sit before asking her? Ask each Tanda she is sitting? Every other one? N = divide the number of women by the number of men and dance with her every Nth tanda? Mr. Technical here has asked DW for an algorithm, but can't get a straight answer on it!

Rank all the followers from 1 to N (where N is the number of followers in the milonga) in terms of desirability as a partner based on whatever parameter is important to you (skill, looks, age, height, etc.). Your wife will get a number somewhere in that range. Take the square root, and round up. That's how many tandas you should go between dancing with her. *

* Algorithm not tested in actual practice. Results may vary, void where prohibited.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Hahaha, and don't forget, all that parameters are variables. They are functions of time, your mood, a milonga ambiance, music, other people, etc, etc.
I suggest you do it the same way you dance tango: set down a few basic principles, then improvise.

 

[Zhena]

DW Refuses to Dance with TD!

TD was DT (dead tired). I had been up all night earlier in the week, then I had a late fund raising dinner, then I had to get up early for my volunteer coaching activities... No problem, I'll take a nap before the Milonga! Murphy intervened, and a friend asked to come over to repair his car. You guessed it, no sleep for me! We went to the Milonga. There were women everywhere! The entry was full of women, they were in the coat closet, lined up for the restroom, clustered around the payment table, circumscribed the snack table, and were filling almost every chair. I think only one other male showed up later. Men were in very short supply.

I think it was dchester that says he starts his night with 3 Tandas with his wife. I have glommed onto that number so DW and I started with 3 Tandas. I plodded around the floor, mostly just walking and doing parallel steps. While it was fun, I was hot and tired though my night had just begun! I went outside to cool off and rest, came inside and rested another Tanda. DW and I danced another Tanda or two, with breaks before and after. The other men seemed like they wanted to talk more than usual, so that was even more Tandas I was sitting out. Half the night was over at this point, and I had only danced with DW so far, so I thought maybe I'd just finish the night with just her. I was tired, and she was not getting very many dances, and I guess the empathy of which I spoke in post #150 wanes with fatigue. I walked towards her and tried cabeceo. She sat there. I walked right up and asked. She sat there. I asked why, and she said "I want to share the wealth." I had just been rejected my my own DW! I put on my most hang dog expression but it didn't work and she instructed me to go dance with someone else!

There were several possible responses. I could have physically picked her up... I could have gone outside... We could have had an argument via texting... I could have pulled the fire alarm... I could have grabbed the car and done some midnight drag racing down Main street... I chose to ask another lady. TD was still in simple steps mode, but it went well.

OK, mission accomplished, DW should be happy now. I asked her again, and she again refused! Truly it is not possible we men are ever this obstinate! Another lady graciously accepted my invite. It was fast Milonga music. I reached deep and found a hidden energy reserve. It was great fun, and what's this? I'm starting to feel revitalized! The only glitch was I thought the Tanda was over at the 2 song point, oops! I blame a lack of sleep! Fortunately the lady said something.

I had a slow start, but finished in a blaze of glory having danced with several ladies. I had intended to leave early, but DW and I wound up shutting the place down. We got home in the wee hours, and naturally I had to get up early, again, the next day. It was worth it!

Kudos to your DW for wanting to share the wealth, and double kudos to you for taking it in good spirits. I'm glad it worked out for you.

 

[Tango Distance]

Twelve. ...

Does that mean you'd let your partner sit out 12 Tandas if she was not getting asked at all?

Rank all the followers from 1 to N (where N is the number of followers in the milonga) in terms of desirability as a partner based on whatever parameter is important to you (skill, looks, age, height, etc.). Your wife will get a number somewhere in that range. Take the square root, and round up. That's how many tandas you should go between dancing with her. *
* Algorithm not tested in actual practice. Results may vary, void where prohibited.

Now this is an algorithm I can do!

• Rank wife as 1
• sqrt(1) = 1
• Answer: Dance with DW every tanda!

Hahaha, and don't forget, all that parameters are variables. They are functions of time, your mood, a milonga ambiance, music, other people, etc, etc.
I suggest you do it the same way you dance tango: set down a few basic principles, then improvise.

Oh great, a "touchy feely" answer! That's the kind of advice DW gives me!

So maybe I should ask the question differently, how many Tandas would you let your spouse sit out before asking them to dance? Answers as a function of the number of male vs. female attendees would be great.

 

[Tango Distance]

Each couple decides that for themselves. There is no rule. A common arrangement is to dance the first and the last tanda together, plus some special tandas in between (such as her/his favorite music, milonga/vals tanda, Pugliese, etc). Some want to mingle even more, and dance just one or two tandas together.
Talk with your spouse. Whatever works for both of you will be fine.

We kind of do this. We start with 3 tandas, ala dchester, and finish with 3 tandas, but in between it is ad hoc. It's hard to know if I am maximizing spousal Tango satisfaction.

Kudos to your DW for wanting to share the wealth, and double kudos to you for taking it in good spirits. I'm glad it worked out for you.

She is a good person. I'm still trying to figure all this Tango stuff out!

 

[pascal]

Does that mean you'd let your partner sit out 12 Tandas if she was not getting asked at all?

Why, yes.
Your "if" is quite n/a in our case though, as she was much higherly ranked among the followers of the said milonga than I was among the leaders.

 

[Krys]

Does that mean you'd let your partner sit out 12 Tandas if she was not getting asked at all?

Now this is an algorithm I can do!

• Rank wife as 1
• sqrt(1) = 1
• Answer: Dance with DW every tanda!

Oh great, a "touchy feely" answer! That's the kind of advice DW gives me!

So maybe I should ask the question differently, how many Tandas would you let your spouse sit out before asking them to dance? Answers as a function of the number of male vs. female attendees would be great.

As a gentleman you are supposed to make DW looks like a good dancing girl. So I would say youhave to take care she is dancing more than average.
Assuming there is more men than women in your milonga, I would say:
NT = (T * W / M) - C

With
- T : number of tanda there will be during the time you stay in milonga
- W : number of women
- M : number of men
- NT : number tanda you can let your DW not dancing
- C : arbitrary value strictly superior to 0 and strictly under T*W/M

T * W / M is the average number of tanda a women will wait between each dance. So she have to wait less than an average dancer.

Hope you are good in mental arithmetic ;-)

Personally the only rule I use is "dance first and last tenda with my usual partner".
I may invite here during some other tandas if i see she is bored or (more usually) if I there is a tanda of an orchestra we like to dance together. As I am not good with mental arithmetic, this way is much easier ;-)

 

[Tango Distance]

Krys, I like it. Here's an idea, how about an algorithm that guarantees she dances at least 1/2 the time. I'll use Krys' definitions in #173 and add these:

g = guaranteed number of Tandas (1st 3 and last 3 in my case, sounds like 1st and last for many others)

T - g = Tandas left after the guaranteed number

(T - g) * M / W = The number of tandas she would get if everyone were rotating perfectly, not counting the guaranteed tandas.

[g + (T - g) * M / W] / T = Fraction of the Tandas she would get to dance

So if this is to be larger than 0.5 (she dances at least 1/2 the night):

[g + (T - g) * M / W] / T >= 0.5

So plug in some typical numbers for our 3 hour Milonga (about 18 Tandas):

[6 + (18 - 6) * M/W] / 18 >= 0.5

M/W = 1/4

Wow, a lower number than I thought. So if in between our first 3 and last 3 Tandas she gets 1 in 4 Tandas danced, that is still dancing 1/2 the night. That is better than I thought. This means I could dance with about 9 other ladies, more than I would have guessed. Suppose that moves up to 1/2 the time in the in between period:

[6 + (18 - 6) * 1 / 2] / 18 = 2/3

So if we start with 3, and end with three, and do every other Tanda in between, she would dance 2/3 the night -- and that is the bounding case of no one else asking her. I could then dance with as many as 6 other ladies, and she would still get 2/3 of the Tandas.

I felt like she wouldn't get much action on a sparse night, but putting some numbers to it I see I could circulate more than I realized and she would still have a majority of the Tandas danced.

I didn't account for Tandas I happened to not dance. I should try to keep that number small on man shortage nights.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Remember, when you dance a lot with one person during one night, the invitation from other people to that person tend to become more and more scarce.

In my opinion, at this point it would be time to reconsider the idea "amount of fun had in the milonga = amount of tandas danced not seated."

 

[Krys]

Krys, I like it. Here's an idea, how about an algorithm that guarantees she dances at least 1/2 the time. I'll use Krys' definitions in #173 and add these:

g = guaranteed number of Tandas (1st 3 and last 3 in my case, sounds like 1st and last for many others)

T - g = Tandas left after the guaranteed number

(T - g) * M / W = The number of tandas she would get if everyone were rotating perfectly, not counting the guaranteed tandas.

[g + (T - g) * M / W] / T = Fraction of the Tandas she would get to dance

So if this is to be larger than 0.5 (she dances at least 1/2 the night):

[g + (T - g) * M / W] / T >= 0.5

So plug in some typical numbers for our 3 hour Milonga (about 18 Tandas):

[6 + (18 - 6) * M/W] / 18 >= 0.5

M/W = 1/4

Wow, a lower number than I thought. So if in between our first 3 and last 3 Tandas she gets 1 in 4 Tandas danced, that is still dancing 1/2 the night. That is better than I thought. This means I could dance with about 9 other ladies, more than I would have guessed. Suppose that moves up to 1/2 the time in the in between period:

[6 + (18 - 6) * 1 / 2] / 18 = 2/3

So if we start with 3, and end with three, and do every other Tanda in between, she would dance 2/3 the night -- and that is the bounding case of no one else asking her. I could then dance with as many as 6 other ladies, and she would still get 2/3 of the Tandas.

I felt like she wouldn't get much action on a sparse night, but putting some numbers to it I see I could circulate more than I realized and she would still have a majority of the Tandas danced.

As you actually guarantee 1/3 of the tandas to DW it is not a big surprise... ;-)


My objectives would be she dance more than the average.
1/2 of times seems a bit arbitrary.

So I would propose :
[g + (T - g) * M / W] / T >= M/W as an objective.

If there is as many men as women she should be able to dance every tanda. And it would be surprised to see her dancing only one half of the tandas.
If there is 2 men (including you) and there is 20 women. You should invite DW a lot to allow her to dance 1/2 tanda.
Wich could give the impression you and DW are only dancing together. It may encourage the other dancer not to invite .

I didn't account for Tandas I happened to not dance. I should try to keep that number small on man shortage nights.

Totally disagree. Part of fun is listening the music and seeing how people dance.
And some Tanda are so intense that it is important to take some rest.

Remember, when you dance a lot with one person during one night, the invitation from other people to that person tend to become more and more scarce.

In my opinion, at this point it would be time to reconsider the idea "amount of fun had in the milonga = amount of tandas danced not seated."

Totally agree.
But sometimes fun is not the objective (and I personally know people like this ) ;-)

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

I understand the math talk is not exactly serious here, but still want to say: less counting and quantification! Concentrate on unmeasurable qualities instead.

 

[Tango Distance]

Remember, when you dance a lot with one person during one night, the invitation from other people to that person tend to become more and more scarce.

Good point, but not a problem for us. I'm not sure exactly what her magic is, even though I'm clearly under her spell! As soon as I quit dancing with DW she gets asked. I have seen nights where several ladies were asked zero or few times but DW will get asked for every tanda. Even though she is not highly experienced, a stream of very experienced men ask her. She has even had experienced men ask her to dance multiple tandas, even when there was quite the excess of women. To be honest, I'm lucky she puts a priority on me, or I might never get a chance to dance with her! The only times she is not dancing constantly are because of a severe shortage of men -- and even then she usually winds up doing a tanda with every man. Despite being relatively new to tango, other women have asked her to coach them on how to get dances.

 

[Tango Distance]

In my opinion, at this point it would be time to reconsider the idea "amount of fun had in the milonga = amount of tandas danced not seated." ...

I understand the math talk is not exactly serious here, but still want to say: less counting and quantification! Concentrate on unmeasurable qualities instead.

Help me out here! I find comfort in numbers and algorithms. I get that once a tanda is underway you give your partner your full effort and attention and try to make it a great experience for them. I see that is not a math thing. But in between tandas, especially when there is an excess of females, which "unmeasurable qualities" are the touchy-feely-challenged Tango Distance to use? When not dancing with DW, I generally try to ask new people, class mates, and people I know -- all quantifiable things. My wife often encourages me to ask the most beautiful women present (evidenced by saying things like "Ask that beautiful lady there.") -- as a man I would understand that coming from another male, but am not sure what to think of it from DW.

I think for DW more tandas = more fun. For myself I don't make a big push that way, but the overall trend is I have been dancing more and more tandas as I continue to make more Tango friends.

 

[Tango Distance]

... Part of fun is listening the music and seeing how people dance.
And some Tanda are so intense that it is important to take some rest.

No problem for me there, I stop to cool off, or if there isn't anyone I know left to ask, or to talk to people.

... But sometimes fun is not the objective (and I personally know people like this ) ;-)

UUuuuuhhhhhh... If fun is not the ultimate objective (I can see short term pain being tolerable in support of a long term fun goal) why do it?