Not touchy feely

[Tango Distance]

Rationing Hugs

I stood in front of one of my classmates at a practica and said goodbye. I think I could tell from her body language she would have enjoyed a hug, but I feel like I have only so many of them in me to give and walked away.

OK, got to go with the plan. I walked up to a lady that is one of the few who knows my narrative. She is also one of the people I'll do CE with. I said "bye" and she quick jumped up and hugged me -- she knows me well enough to do more of a side hug and make it quick. I knew she would likely do that, so it was not really a surprise. I even facilitated it by walking up to her. I could have just left. I could tell by body language the lady next to her wanted a hug, too. Oh great, I wasn't ready for this, this wasn't part of the plan.

No joke, I said, "I guess I have to hug you now, too." Had I the brains to stop there, it might have worked out OK. She might have interpreted it as "Oh boy! Lucky me! I just HAVE to to hug you right now!" But no, the TD dug himself in deeper and said "I shouldn't have said that." I turned it from benefit-of-the-doubt to no-doubt-I-don't-want-to-hug-you. She didn't seem put off, but still jumped up and we did a brief hug.

This hugging stuff is not something where I can just trust my instincts! I have to plan things out to some degree.

I better appreciate the people earlier in my "Not Touchy Feely" thread that said they like the structured interaction dance can provide. I do find it interesting I'll dance with someone, even CE sometimes, but feel awkward about hugging even seconds later -- maybe it is that structured vs. unstructured thing.

 

[newbie]

"I guess I have to hug you now, too."

That's the phenomenon referred to by World-of-Warcraft gamers as "taking aggro". When you target a foe, the whole group will attack you.

 

[Chrisa Assis]

Rationing Hugs

No joke, I said, "I guess I have to hug you now, too." Had I the brains to stop there, it might have worked out OK. She might have interpreted it as "Oh boy! Lucky me! I just HAVE to to hug you right now!" But no, the TD dug himself in deeper and said "I shouldn't have said that." I turned it from benefit-of-the-doubt to no-doubt-I-don't-want-to-hug-you. She didn't seem put off, but still jumped up and we did a brief hug.

Isn't it amazing how our brain just rushes forward, and we can hear ourselves saying something we know we should have said, but by the time we realize it, poof, it is already out there..! hahaha

I don't want to put you in tough spot and please don't feel like you have to answer, but I am wondering, have you figured what is it exactly, that makes you feel this way about a hug? Is it something internal, or something external? meaning is it the touch itself, the connection through the skin, the sharing of space? or does it have to do with the sharing of a breath, with how your body and mind internalizes the touch of the torso?

 

[Steve Pastor]

One of my female colleagues walked by today and gave me one of her somewhat enigmatic smiles. Since we hadn't seen each other for a while, I patted her on the back. Then I said, "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't ask permission." She laughed.

Well, I pretty much have learned to trust my instincts, whether casual touching or hugging. (Although I sometimes question myself mercilessly afterwards.)
On the other hand, I've been working on this (tango wise and otherwise) for about 15 years, so I've had lots of practice.

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

I am a natural huger: if I like someone - a man or a woman - I would hug them coming and/or going. Never had a problem with that.
I believe people sense whether it genuine affection or formality and respond accordingly. But not everyone is the same... My recommendation to Tango Distance and alike is to be consistent. If you hug selectivity (some yes other no) people will think you do not like them and that may create unnecessary rift.

 

[TomTango]

At this point tango has removed almost all of my personal boundaries. Hugging just seems to be a standard greeting/parting ritual for tango people. To top it off, I've been told my community is extra-huggy even by tango standards (Tango Distance, you'd probably hate it here!). For example, classes usually have a hug before/after partners rotate.

It's gotten bad. When I got my new job and met my boss for the first time, I almost got up and hugged him before realizing that that probably wouldn't be appropriate.

 

[twnkltoz]

I have no sense of personal boundaries. People touch me, I touch them, it just doesn't occur to me that it isn't normal.

 

[Tango Distance]

... My recommendation to Tango Distance and alike is to be consistent. If you hug selectivity (some yes others no) people will think you do not like them and that may create unnecessary rifts.

I have been hugging selectively. If someone gets a hug from me (or, more accurately, I'm tolerating the hug from them) my DW will sometimes say "You are special to get a hug from Tango Distance."

While I have seen that some would like a hug that didn't get one, I hadn't thought that some ladies might think I don't like them. I am very egalitarian for asking ladies to dance, and have been complimented that I ignore clique structure. I just realized I have created my own hug clique of sorts. I feel tired just thinking about running a full hug gauntlet with all the ladies, maybe I should be doing ninja departures from milongas.

... I've been told my community is extra-huggy even by tango standards (Tango Distance, you'd probably hate it here!). For example, classes usually have a hug before/after partners rotate. ...

Tom, don't you teach? It's time for you to get control of your classes. Ask them to do the hugging after class, on their own time, and not "on the clock", the time that people paid for to learn to dance. Let's put some numbers to it. A $10 lesson for 50 minutes is 1 penny per 3 seconds. Switch partners every 3 minutes, that's 16 partner switches, but then it is 32 hugs if before and after, figure 3 seconds a hug... We are talking about 1/3 of a dollar of lost value in all that time wasted on hugging.

... People touch me, I touch them, it just doesn't occur to me that it isn't normal.

Not hugging is normal in some cultures.

 

[opendoor]

..Tom... Ask them to do the hugging after class, on their own time..

A while ago I had lessons and privates with Sebastián Arce. When it came to enrosques he started lecturing 40 min on hugging and kissing....

 

[RiseNFall]

While I have seen that some would like a hug that didn't get one, I hadn't thought that some ladies might think I don't like them. I am very egalitarian for asking ladies to dance, and have been complimented that I ignore clique structure. I just realized I have created my own hug clique of sorts. I feel tired just thinking about running a full hug gauntlet with all the ladies, maybe I should be doing ninja departures from milongas.

Don't worry. There is a guy at the studio who really does not like the hug and kiss thing. However, he accepts it so gracefully from those who initiate them that it took me a while to understand how he felt about it. I am not the least bit offended when he participates in the hugging/kissing thing with others and not with me.

 

[Tango Distance]

... Sebastián Arce ... started lecturing 40 min on hugging and kissing....

I know many Tango people are into hugging, but weren't people thinking "Enough already let's dance" after a bit?

Don't worry. There is a guy at the studio who really does not like the hug and kiss thing. However, he accepts it so gracefully from those who initiate them that it took me a while to understand how he felt about it. I am not the least bit offended when he participates in the hugging/kissing thing with others and not with me.

He probably has some nuggets of wisdom for me, can you please ask? Feel free to answer here or in PM as you think is best.

The people who know me from my early Tango days are generally respectful. The newer people just assume I'm like other Tangoers and will just pull me in to show me close embrace moves, for instance. Interestingly, two ladies who blatantly asked to do CE (which I did) at a later date one physically held me off, the other said "You can stay open embrace." I asked an instructor about CE, and she said "First you have to want to be that close to someone." There are other stories. Apparently I am radiating some unease or something that these ladies are picking up on, or maybe it's just my OE is so much better than my CE, or maybe they just remember my history.

At a close embrace Blues dancing class I did sense one lady was truly enjoying CE with me. I was doing well that night and was totally sync'd with the music. I did do a CE Tango class with a visiting instructor. Some of the new-to-Tango people seemed to really enjoy CE with me. It was enough of an adventure I'll write it up in the future.

I'm hoping I can become more like RiseNFall's friend and not ooze any negativity when hugged.

 

[RiseNFall]

He's just been in the dance world longer than have, plus he's a good actor (I've seen him do showcases).

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

Tango Distance, I am going to express my personal opinion here, and I am sure some will disagree completely or partially, but that's what I believe:

Argentine Tango is close embrace dance. That is one of it's fundamental aspects. Close embrace means dancing in a hugging position. If hugging and close contact with women (other than your wife, as you stated earlier) is not your thing, I question whether Argentine Tango is for you. The are many fine Ballroom dances where close embrace is not part of it.
Why do you feel the desire to Tango if "hugging" is a problem for you?

 

[RiseNFall]

He has a lot of fun and enjoyment doing it his way and it is clear from his posts that he is a valued member of the community.

 

[newbie]

I am sure some will disagree completely

This.