Not touchy feely

I like the honesty of beginners, they don't know enough to cover my mistakes!
Mladenac wrote:
... There is an excellent blog post Delusion of competence ...

However, to quote that post: "Anybody can be a great dancer when they have a perfect partner – but for me, the skill set that truly makes them advanced is that they can dance just as well with a pro as they can with a beginner."

That is simply not true. Having a "perfect" partner (whatever that means) will not make you a great dancer, won't even make you look like a great dancer, may not even make your dance easier. The second part is also not true, it is definitely not as easy to dance with a beginner as it is with a "pro." However, I've danced with "pros" that were not all that great to dance with. It's more a question of compatibility and desire.
 
You'd think after 10 minutes of close embrace hugging another few seconds would not be a big deal. When the tanda ends something changes and I revert somewhat back to don't-hug-me mode. Others on my thread have said this, too.
A hug at the end of a good tanda, ok. But it's time to leave at the end of a tanda for me, even if I plan to continue the next tanda. Very simple: "no music, no dance - embrace is dance".
And I dance CE leading men the same way as I do with women - do I really want men to hold my tight during a whole cortina?
 
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TD: "My DW occasionally brings up going to Buenos Aires to tango. Again, I feel weary just thinking of that much CE, so I tell DW she can go without me."

That's good advice. She will have a great time, but tell her to make plans this year while there are still a few milongueros viejos around. She will feel the difference dancing tango with portenos. She can contact me through this forum or my blog, and I'll give her my recommended list of milongas.
 
My DW has no trouble getting dances, even when we travel, so I expect she'd enjoy a BA trip. Thanks for offering to suggest milongas.
 
Did the Tango Distance Get the Tango Tingles?
Here is an old post from my thread:
Oh totally, I completely understand some women love their guys to be a bit insecure! I'm just saying for me it kills those tangoe tingles ;)

I was working late before my trip. It was 3 a.m. late for multiple nights, but I had to get things done. There will be plenty of time to sleep once I’m dead, uh, I mean when I’m done early each night and get to bed early to catch up on sleep. Naturally each day was rich… full… awesome… and long. I’d get to my hotel late, and then have to do yet some more work via my laptop computer.

I had looked up Tango opportunities before the trip. For a major metropolitan area, there was not much Tango listed, but there was a milonga listed my last night there. I could sleep on the plane, right? I Uber’d the 6.6 kilometers to what was surely the wrong address – it was just a house in a neighborhood. I had the Uber driver double check, it was the right address. I double checked the listed address, it matched. Then I saw a dancing couple, and realized I was at the right place after all.

My arrival made me male #3 with about 8 females, and the night was ½ over. Dancing with one lady went very well. She said she did steps with me she had never done before. She had followed so well I thought she had done them many times. She even said she hoped her daughter would meet someone like me.

The night wound down and I asked that lady again to finish. It was going well. Maybe being so tired was a part of it. I felt pleasantly tingly. BTW I think I am a bit of a synesthete (someone who can mirror other’s sensations, such as feeling hand pain when they see another hurt a hand). What was new for me was feeling like the pleasant tingles surrounded us both, like we were both in the same large egg shell of tingles. It seemed perfectly natural and felt good. I didn’t even think of it as being a strange thing. I think being tired was part of it. Sometimes I feel pleasantly tingly if I’m very tired as I fall asleep. I think I must have been very tired to not go <slap!> <slap!> “TD! You are a man of science! Wake up! There is no way your college physics textbook could explain that you could somehow perceive that lady was also feeling pleasantly tingly at the same time!” The night ended, I thanked the ladies, the DJ, and the host; the ladies expressed sorrow I was there just for one night; and away I went.

It was some days later I suddenly realized that was a new experience for me and maybe a little weird, perceiving that I was sharing a pleasant tingly experience with someone else. For the record, no alcohol or drugs were involved. I don’t actually know if this lady felt the same thing, it seemed so natural at that moment (and maybe it was that tired thing) it didn’t occur to me to ask, but she did seem to greatly enjoy our two tandas and was very appreciative.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Less and Less Wild
Tango Distance and the Tango Closeness were on a trip and stopped by a Milonga. With new people I generally start slower and simpler, and work up in complexity. I rarely start with close embrace, but start open embrace and work towards close embrace.

I could tell right away this lady could really follow and went right to my biggest and boldest moves, with a big dramatic stage finish at the end of the first song. She enjoyed it and said it was a great finish. The 2nd song slowed down and was simpler. I reflected the music, took smaller steps and did a simpler dance. The 3rd song was slow and smooth. We stayed glued in a close embrace, and the Tango Distance moved his hand from the usual center-of-her-back to a full hug arm wrap. Our steps were every other beat and the motions were smooth. It felt like flowing down the song’s river of music.

I get excited, bubbly thanks and praise from beginners. I often get warm and sincere but more restrained thanks from better dancers. This lady was excellent and obviously experienced, and excited and gushing about how wonderful the tanda was.

It was a new experience for the TD, going from fast, open, and complicated to smooth, slow, simpler, and close embrace. It went well. Big credit goes to the DJ who picked the music that made it happen.

I Hope You Are Putting on Your Dance Shoes
I was at a festival, and one of the ladies told me Lady N had only been asked twice at the night before Milonga. It was nice to see the ladies taking care of each other that way. Lady N showed up, and took a seat. She sat there with a nice dress, nice hairdo, and nice makeup which complemented her natural beauty, but left on shoes obviously meant for street use and not dancing. I walked up to her and said, “I hope you are putting on your dance shoes!” That phrase alone gave her some obvious joy. I did a tanda with another as she shod. Someone else had grabbed her. Yet another tanda later, she was free and I asked. She was obviously a bit new to Tango. While mistakes were made, her dance joy was off the charts; you could tell she was having a really good time; I had a great time, too.

It’s All about the Ganchos and Enrosques
It’s not really much of a story. I have now done my first enrosques! The students in the class were very enthusiastic about how neat they are, the Tango Distance included!

I also got a lesson in doing a bunch of gaunchos in a row. I hope to soon be called Tango “El Pulpo Dos” Distancia.
 
Now for introspection:

It has only taken about 4 and 1/2 years, but an outside observer with a 10 minute look might go as far as saying "The Tango Distance looks like the other dancers. I wonder where the "Distance" part of his name comes from?" I think there are even Milongas now where I am not the most socially awkward person there!

The Tango Distance has come a long ways. While I'll still slip out and skip the hug gauntlet if I can, I now generally just do a hug with someone if I think they'll like it. I can sense their enjoyment instead of being drowned in feelings of "get out of here!" and even like that I created a little more happiness in the world.

It's a common thing for introverts, they can often act, sing, publicly speak, perform, etc. well, but feel like they do so as an actor and not their real self. I find it interesting I'm still that way with Tango during a Tanda, I had thought it might subside with time. I'll do a full Tanda of close embrace, and even do a hug at the end, but feel different about the hug outside of the dance context.

With my "Tango Tingles" and "Less and Less Wild" posts above maybe even I'm starting to get this Tango thing.

Frequency is a great concept, and working in frequency space is something I do professionally. I'm sure some have noticed I don't post in my thread as much. I'm just not as interesting as I used to be (although I suppose the ladies might say I am more interesting... hmmm... interesting thought), I think I'm looking more and more like all you all. My frequency of frequency is increasing as a general trend. I would tend to have "Dance only with my DW (Dear Wife), the Tango Closeness" nights, or almost just with her, with some frequency. Dancing with 5 other ladies would be a pretty busy night for the TD. I have been gradually been dancing more and more tandas, and don't think I've had a DW only night for a long time, although I have had nights where it was only 1 or 2 other ladies. Also, milongas were exclusively something to do with my DW the TC. In the last year I have done a small number without my DW (traveling, and a festival where she was injured and I knew they were very short on leaders). I now have what I call my "fan club." It includes a small number of local ladies I try to be sure to ask, particularly if they are sitting out. It also includes some ladies I met at our last local festival, who said they looked forward to dancing with me at a future festival.

The TD and TC also did some Swing Dance lessons, and I circulated pretty regularly once I had around 12 lessons. It's easier in some ways with Swing: You just dance one song, it's not as close and personal, and the ladies ask as much as the men. There is a culture of saying "yes" in Swing (and, for the record, pretty much in my local Tango scene).

For the TD and TC: I still do 4 to 8 tandas with her at a Milonga (most common numbers being 4 or 5). She likes to get to Milongas early, we are often the first or among the first couples on the floor, so that doesn't lessen tandas with other ladies as much as you might think. Indeed, the evening is often still slow after 3 tandas with the TC. It is funny, I know she dealt with frustration with the TD-is-not-dancing-with-other-ladies in the past. Now, I'll sometimes see a rare flash of annoyance with the TD-is-dancing-with-other-ladies. I think I have passed the one-tailed 2 sigma mark with the TC with her being 83% happy with me. I'm still working to get that to 3 sigmas, 99+%.
 
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I was at a festival, and one of the ladies told me Lady N had only been asked twice at the night before Milonga. It was nice to see the ladies taking care of each other that way. Lady N showed up, and took a seat. She sat there with a nice dress, nice hairdo, and nice makeup which complemented her natural beauty, but left on shoes obviously meant for street use and not dancing. I walked up to her and said, “I hope you are putting on your dance shoes!” That phrase alone gave her some obvious joy. I did a tanda with another as she shod. Someone else had grabbed her. Yet another tanda later, she was free and I asked. She was obviously a bit new to Tango. While mistakes were made, her dance joy was off the charts; you could tell she was having a really good time; I had a great time, too.
What a lovely story!
 
It was some days later I suddenly realized that was a new experience for me and maybe a little weird, perceiving that I was sharing a pleasant tingly experience with someone else. For the record, no alcohol or drugs were involved. I don’t actually know if this lady felt the same thing, it seemed so natural at that moment (and maybe it was that tired thing) it didn’t occur to me to ask, but she did seem to greatly enjoy our two tandas and was very appreciative.

Has anyone had a similar experience?
Yes! for me that feeling of shared experience is what got me hooked on AT, that combined with the occasional moments described as "tango bliss" or "tango trance".

this article on how brains interact indicates what might be an underlying reason for the benefits of the AT custom of beginning the dance with the mirada (the eye contact).

"What is happening in the other person’s brain? Eye contact was a logical place to look. Making eye contact activates the social brain and signals to another person that you are paying attention. It is one way we share intention and emotion".

 
... had a very nice being hugged with our eyes close and hug people exercise. It felt real good, some people have a very caring hug, some people seem to really being needing that hug, some hugs are nice others are oppressive. ...
I don't want to hijack Hugo's excellent thread, so I'm responding to one of his posts in my thread.

Hugo's words above, plus the discussion on light vs. heavy leading, gave me an insight. In addition to my primary hug issue, I realize I had (well, still have) a form of hug deafness. I intellectually know there are hugs for different reasons. Hugo's being able to read that from the hug itself... wow... interesting. I realized Hugo is likely good at "hearing" hugs and can hear things whispered.

I can remember the lady who danced angry (not at me, even as the Distance I realized she was having a hard time over something from before the milonga), and gave me a powerful hug at the end. I could tell she needed a hug. The ladies that wouldn't let go of me at the end of a Tanda, I was able to tell they were really caught up in the moment and really enjoyed it and wanted to communicate it. I've been able to detect some drunken hugs (even though I couldn't tell from the dancing). I now see these were "loud" hugs and that's why I remember them.

Then there are the rest of the hugs. The are pretty much an amorphous blob in my mind. Inspired by Hugo, I'm going to see if I can "listen" better -- knowing someone is in real need of that hug would be a good thing to know and could make me a better person. I could direct them to one of the good huggers. :cool:

One final thought: I'm now looking at the "Cure the Tango Distance" hugs in a new light. A couple of people heard I didn't like being hugged and responded to that by giving me a big squeeze and long hug. I had thought it was an attempt to cure me (well intended, I'm sure), or maybe to tease me (I realize it's friends who tease, and indeed, do my share of teasing, just not with hugs.). I now see it very well might have been an attempt to hug "louder," hoping I would be able to then read the kindness they intended.
 
I'll try to help with my insight.

I realized Hugo is likely good at "hearing" hugs and can hear things whispered.

People that need a hug:

Thinking of this, I quickly go back to some traumatic moments, my mother is a cancer survivor, my GF has had some health issues, helped and supported friends in an hour of need, so I have hugged a lot of times people that were needing it.

It's not a conscious thing, trying to analyse it, I would put someone that surrenders itself to the hug, getting super relaxed or visibly calmer as long as the hug lasts. They would start tensing at any sign the hug is going to end.

Caring hug:

I would define it as a soft but firm hug, where the person giving the hug feels calm and relaxed, I now I realize this is what I try my embrace to be unless I feel I need it to change.

Oppressive hug:

This is tricky, probably because I didn't have much of these, I would say a hug that doesn't adapt to you, like someone hugs you, and it's uncomfortable and you don't sense either a change in the other person, like the hug is only in a position comfortable for the other person.

Enthusiastic hug:

Playing and watching football, going to Rock/Metal concerts and bike rallies, I have had a lot of those, sometimes by complete strangers. This is normally a spur of the moment, I would call it a hug with a strong direction that sometimes changes to produce movement to release a strong feeling at the time. It can be happiness, sadness, it just is a emotion that is very strong at the moment and the hug is the most direct way to share it / release it / express it.

Nice hugs:

I would say it's when I reciprocate the hug and feel something I classify as positive in the other person reaction, same thing when you start talking with someone and they talk back.
Here is my hug, I hug back, sense some change I consider positive at the time, calmer, pull tighter, releasing feelings, etc...

Bad hugs:

One type would be when its a one way street, like someone you can't communicate with, or doesn't answer back, like my hug did nothing, or the other person is only trying to impose their will, doesn't respond to your clearly uncomfortable responses by adjusting/releasing the hug, etc.
Other would be when the response is what I consider negative at the time, people are uncomfortable, they squirm, they tense up (most people who had a relation had that hug were you feel the other people tense up and you know somethings up, normally you feel a feeling of dread).

That all I remember for now.

Didn't mean to write my treaty on hugs, but thanks for making me thing about it, I try to adapt my Tango embrace if I feel someone is nervous, tense to see if a softer or harder, lighter or more present, looser or tighter embrace to see if I get better feedback, like the people calming, getting more relaxed, feel it more present or more focused.

Hope I was able to help, I seems it's a matter of experience as so many things in live, if I forgot some type of hug just ask and I'll try to analyse it through my experience.
 
Nothing to add to the conversation, I'm afraid. Just wanted to tell you, @Tango Distance, that this is an excellent read and I can identify with much of it; and you'd never know that if I didn't comment; and you'd probably like to know both that your experience is not unique and your public thinking-it-through has helped someone.

So yeah, that's all. Carry on!
 
I actually have a backlog of Tango Distance stories. It just doesn't seem so pressing an issue now to discuss, so I write a story down once in a while, but haven't posted. Now that Tango is on hold, it seems a good time to post them. I'll post one every couple of days or so. Give them a like to encourage more stories.

Tango Distance does a Couples Massage Class

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. My first exposure to couples massage was seeing the tail end of the session. I described this misadventure in this post:


Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. My dear wife (DW) and I have traveled to a festival for several years now. At the 2nd one, my DW (the Tango Closeness (TC)) said brightly, “Let’s do the couple’s massage session!” This was less than 2 years into my Touchy Feely journey. These Tango people are touching each other all the time… They like to switch partners… You can guess where this is going… I said “No way!”

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. A year or two later, my DW the TC suggested we just watch for a bit. We caught the tail end. The couples did not switch parters! I thought, “Hey, I can do this!”

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. At the most recent iteration of the festival, I agreed to do the couples massage class. Whoops, we didn’t think to bring a yoga pad. No worries, I ran to our car and grabbed a blanket that happened to be in the trunk. I come back, and to my horror everyone is in groups of threes with the massagee standing but bent over, with the other two enthusiastically pounding the back. Thinking at ludicrous mode speed, I walked up to the triplet with my dear wife, and said “I’ll grab the Tango Closeness now, you don’t need to do a group of three.”

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. “Oh no!” exclaimed the group, “you don’t want to miss out on this!” The large, strong male grabbed my DW and started dancing Tango. The lady grabbed me in an embrace. The large male danced backwards at high speed towards me. Right when he collided with my upper body, the lady did a full force boleo that hit me right where it counts. I doubled over in pain. They held me in place with amazing grip strength, commenced pounding on my back. I exaggerate, but they did use the full force of peer pressure, plus pushing and pulling me into the massagee position. The Tango Distance (TD) made it through the pounding.

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. The pounding stops, and the TC and I retreat to our blanket. She asked if I wanted to go first as massager or massagee? Just running with my intuition, I said massager. The TC suddenly developed amnesia about have just asked and said she thought it was better if she did. It did feel good, now this was more like it! Then the instructor sees the TC is not doing it right, kicks her off of me, takes her place to demo to the class! All eyes were on me! I bury my face in the pillow of clothes. We were the only couple in the class called out like this.

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. The guy next to us announces he needs to get a drink of water, and is gone a very long time. I really do believe this massage thing with a woman he doesn’t know got to him. Another gracious gentlemen bounces back and forth between this lady and his original massagee.

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. My DW the TC gets kicked off the job again, and I become the object of public massage once again! Again I bury my face. When she was done, everyone started asking how did I like it? I keep my face down, and do a thumbs up, to avoid looking up and speaking, to the delight of the crowd. No other couple was called out and have the instructor jump in like that, but I got it twice!

Ladies and gentlemen, you can’t make this stuff up. I’ll do it again next year if my DW the TC wants. I’m kidding myself with that “if” business. Of course she’ll want to do it! Talk about opposites attracting! (COVID-19 note, this event will likely be cancelled this year.)
 

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