OK, here's my first attempt at a syllabus...

I am not opposed to training.
You seem to be clearly opposed to structured training, however.

I just don't think art would be better if every student was trained the same way.
I agree.

But I think all students need to have some common ground. Otherwise you always have to teach individual students, individually. Any teaching of any group class has to involve some structure, otherwise it's just some sort of perpetual hippy workshop.

The assumption seems to be that students would benefit from standardized teaching.
I suspect you don't understand what "standardised" means. It doesn't mean "exactly the same way". It means "following a common standard".

Why is it good for all students to learn the same way?
It's not.

Where did I say it was?
 
OK, it's possible that I missed something along the way in this thread. If DB is proposing that all teachers use the same syllabus (regardless of who creates it), then I am not in agreement.
Blimey, there's no way that'd ever happen.

I actually thought he was simply soliciting feedback for a syllabus that he is making for himself.
Yes, precisely.

Once I've done that, I'll make it public (as I do with everything), and if others want to use / copy / modify it, I've no problem with that - I'd hope some people would find it useful. But only an insane fool would attempt to impose that on others.

I'm simply reacting to the "Argh syllabi are the work of Satan" knee-jerk responses I'm reading from some people.
 
As I said earlier, Leonardo Da Vinci followed an intense structured training session. That didn't seem to damage his creativity or individuality...

The question is not whether one person who was of the temperment to excel in that structure was creative. The issue is what our world would look like artistically if that had been the ONLY method of art instruction and exposure throughout history. What happened to artists who simply couldn't thrive in that particular structure?

DaVinci was not the "average student". Presumably, there were 100's, if not 1000's of other students who received exactly the same training as DaVinci that we've never heard of and that produced fairly crappy art. There were students who, like college students today, muddled through metalurgy and chemistry just barely "passing" because it was required and never used it again beyond what every artist did to work with their pigments.

Little Leonardo did not become the great DaVinci because of the training method. He became great because of who he was, the talent he had and how he applied all the things he learned because he was fascinated by a large variety of subjects, scientific as well as artistic. The environment of that type of art school was a perfect fit for him.

Another talented artist might have been turned completely off art by the same structure, especially if the establishment in that structure did not see promise in the artist who wouldn't apply himself to the subjects required, but rather preferred to go in a completely new direction. DaVinci perfected the painting trends being developed at the time but didn't really push the artistic boundaries into new and radical territory. He was an innovative scientist, but hardly a trailblazer as a painter.

Clearly though, there are many who would like Tango to be full of DaVinci's and hate the arrival of any artist that changes the boundaries rather than perfects within them. So if that's what you want, then a standardized method with a structure like what DaVinci experienced will be great. But if that's the only training then we would not have the variety of tango styles we have. We'd all be listening to only Golden Age and dancing however they danced then... (as though they only danced one way then :rolleyes:)

As I said, there are those that wish that were the case, but I thought they were in the minority here? Personally, I like Tango because it is NOT like ballroom.
 
Little Leonardo did not become the great DaVinci because of the training method. He became great because of who he was, the talent he had and how he applied all the things he learned because he was fascinated by a large variety of subjects, scientific as well as artistic. The environment of that type of art school was a perfect fit for him.
The training enabled Leonardo to become great. Discipline and technique do not inhibit creativity - they enable it. This is as true for learning as for performing.

The "technique is evil" school sound just like those amateur dancers who whinge about having to learn "the hard / boring stuff" of technique, and excuse themselves from that work by saying "I'm a free spirit, it inhibits my creativity" or some such nonsense.

Personally, I like Tango because it is NOT like ballroom.
Blimey, what is it with some of you lot and ballroom dancing? :confused: It's like an obsession or something...
 
Yes, precisely.

Your stance has not been very clear. In a few posts you gave the impression you wanted to standardize tango instruction (not just in your own classes, but in a more extensive way al la Ballroom) In other posts you give the impression that you are only proposing that teachers use some sort of syllabus of their own making to avoid having to "wing it" in every class. And everything in between.

I think that's why you are getting the responses you are... it's easy to interpret your post in different ways.

Personally, I don't think anyone needs to "relearn" the dance with a different teacher unless they just got BAD instruction from the previous one. Good instruction is useful no matter what comes after it or how different styles work mechanically.

I don't feel a lack of standardization is the problem in Tango.. the problem is that quite a few teachers just aren't very good at teaching the standards.
 
The training enabled Leonardo to become great. Discipline and technique do not inhibit creativity - they enable it. This is as true for learning as for performing.

The "technique is evil" school sound just like those amateur dancers who whinge about having to learn "the hard / boring stuff" of technique, and excuse themselves from that work by saying "I'm a free spirit, it inhibits my creativity" or some such nonsense.


Blimey, what is it with some of you lot and ballroom dancing? :confused: It's like an obsession or something...

Simmer down Dave... I can have a preference for Tango because of what makes it different from other dances without being "obsessed" in some way about Ballroom. sheesh. Let's keep this discussion about the topic and not get personal, ok?

As for technique, NOWHERE did I say that learning technique is bad. In fact, it is all I teach. I only teach "steps" as a few basic ones to beginner leaders.

However, I also vastly prefer to teach individuals based on their individual needs, which in my opinion is the best way to improve anyone's fundamental technique. As I recall, you had some objection to teaching individuals based on their individual (non-standardized) needs, but I'll have to leave the reply window to find it. If I am remebering wrong, mea culpa
 
Well obviously we wouldn't want a standardised dance, I mean then people would be able to communicate and dance easily with each other, and that's clearly a bad thing.
Well, that was the idea around many "standard" dances and it's not necessarily a sound one. Argentine tango places emphasis on leading and following so that you don't need many things that are usually cast in stone in "a syllabus" to dance with strangers.

They wouldn't have to re-learn the dance with every new teacher.
I actually love to re-learn the dance or to see a new teacher expose new tidbits of knowledge...

I think most in this thread agree violently. It's good to commit a personal "syllabus" to paper (or bits on a hard disk) and to discuss things based on it, because it's hard to discuss what isn't defined.

And I think we all agree that publishing it won't suddenly make the world ditch all other knowledge and agree, and that there's no need to see Nefarious Plots to Take Over the Universe everywhere.
 
Otherwise you always have to teach individual students, individually.

You say that like it's a bad thing... I think it's the BEST way to learn the most important aspects of tango... ie: the technique, discipline and training you accuse me of not respecting.
 

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