Placements, Pros, and how it matters

[joy]

Plus “last” in a very small field sometimes means losing to two people also competing and placing well in gold which I refuse to let bother me overly much.

Yes that's how I felt at my last comp. The top 3 were beyond me, and some of them were competing Gold.

In Bronze, I consistently placed well, even in a big comp. In my first Comp as Silver, I won a championship (just barely).

So it was a surprise to both me and my Pro that I placed so badly in the last comp (which was a big comp).

Honestly, I think it's good. The expectations were so high on me, it feels in a way very free-ing.
Like look, Joy can suck too!

And I remember someone on DF, I think maybe Cal. She said maybe you won't do well and some people will judge you, but so what. (I don't remember her exact words). And I'm like, yeah, I probably did get judged and probably some people were a little happy that I didn't do well. But so what.

Who cares what people think?

What matters is what I think, and what my Pro thinks.

I didn't like the experience of losing, but I really liked what I learnt from it.

 

[bronzesusie]

How people can compete in both bronze and gold?

I dance silver it’s just an old user name

 

[Dance Redeemer]

After competitions, we always spend several lessons fixing technique that I "should" know but that I blew at the competition. This time, after Empire, we started our technique lessons - and it's new techniques! I am actually leveling up, which is a nice surprise. However, it means it's very, very focused on small details and very repetitive. It is also hard because it is using some muscles in a different way from what I've been doing. All of this is "small" moves, but it takes a lot of focus from me (and from him).

Apparently, it looked like we weren't doing much, because (unusually) there were several new students in the studio and they repeatedly kept interrupting us to ask all kinds of things of my Pro with lots of follow-up questions. As I mentioned they are new, and Pro tried to be kind (as did I), but they weren't responding to his statements that he's "in a lesson right now" and could talk to them afterward or they could call the studio tomorrow. He finally had to be abrupt with a couple of them (and these were all unrelated parties as best as I could tell). So weird.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

THAT. Unless of course you really hate the idea. But I think you will love silver.

There's a big qualitative difference between Bronze and Silver in Smooth. Is that also true in Rhythm?

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

new techniques! <snip> it's very, very focused on small details and very repetitive. It is also hard because it is using some muscles in a different way from what I've been doing. All of this is "small" moves, but it takes a lot of focus from me (and from him).

^^^^^^^THIS! And it’s physically challenging, too. As in, my muscles get sore in ways they didn’t used to. (On the plus side, at least I no longer stamp my feet and gnash my teeth and whine, “you mean I’ve been doing it wrong until now?”

there were several new students in the studio and they repeatedly kept interrupting us to ask all kinds of things of my Pro with lots of follow-up questions. As I mentioned they are new, and Pro tried to be kind (as did I)

HOLY MOLY. You are a better person than I am. After the second interruption, I suspect I’d have said - loudly - “excuse me. I’m paying $2.55 per minute for this private lesson. Please do not interrupt us again, unless you are prepared to reimburse me for the minutes you’re using.”

Okay, I probably wouldn’t really have said that (because I have few enough friends as it is, and don’t need to reinforce my reputation as a b - well, whatever my reputation is at the studio). But I’d have been sorely tempted. And I would definitely have been thinking it.

 

[j_alexandra]

HOLY MOLY. You are a better person than I am. After the second interruption, I suspect I’d have said - loudly - “excuse me. I’m paying $2.55 per minute for this private lesson. Please do not interrupt us again, unless you are prepared to reimburse me for the minutes you’re using.”

This. It takes the onus off your teacher -- he has to be nice to students. You can say this nicely -- don't have to shout.

A few times, one of the other teachers would walk through my lesson and stop to correct me. Fantastically rude. I finally took her aside, outside my lesson, and asked her politely never to do that again, as it was disruptive to the lesson and took me time to be able to get back to focus. She never did it again.

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

Maybe you can do a silver scholarship in Rhythm with bronze routines (maybe a few silver figures)? Years ago I did a silver scholarship when I transitioned from bronze to silver using only bronze routine. It was a very good experience and got me very motivated. Yes, I had to compete with fancier girls on the floor but that's fine.

Yes, that is the approach my pro would take. (Except we don’t have any routines - everything we do is lead and follow. He said that will still be true if/when we do open bronze and closed silver. According to his latest comments, he does not do choreographed routines until a student is truly an OPEN open dancer…i.e., beyond gold.)

She can still compete L-B.
But honestly I don’t see the point, except “for fun”. I also don’t see the point of Open Bronze Rhythm.

The point of multiple age groups and the point of Open Bronze is - ta daaaa - mo' money mo' money mo' money! I can enter and pay for more heats! OK, but serious answer: open bronze gives you the chance to try out your newbie silver skills, without being compared directly against actual silver dancers.

There's a big qualitative difference between Bronze and Silver in Smooth. Is that also true in Rhythm?

I'm not an expert, obviously, but from what I understand so far, the differences in bronze/silver rhythm are not as substantive as those in bronze/silver smooth. By that, I mean you still use Cuban motion and still point your toes and still use isolation and CBM and so on. You don't, for example, change from "closing your feet" to "using continuity motion." HOWEVER - there are many more allowable and complex timings and positions and figures in Silver, most of which require such good foundational skills that if you try to execute them before you're ready, you'll trip yourself and fall over and look very silly. (At least, that's been my personal experience.) And the judges' (and my pro's) expectations are MUCH higher for silver dancing.

There's an article here that has some useful descriptions of how the levels are different.

 

[Dance Redeemer]

After the second interruption, I suspect I’d have said - loudly - “excuse me. I’m paying $2.55 per minute for this private lesson.

I really thought about this, but I know Pro is looking some for new students, so I was trying to let him have time to give /get contact info so he can follow up with them (he's independent). He's told me before that he is most likely to get a new student from group lessons or from someone watching a lesson. It's sufficiently rare that I try to give him a little space for that. I also know that my Pro will make up the time to me, so I was less concerned about that than that the interruptions were starting to just make the lesson itself hard as J Alexander pointed out. It was just weird because it happened multiple times with unrelated people and then they started coming around again.

my muscles get sore in ways they didn’t used to.

Yup - I do still get frustrated. We are changing up exercises every 2 minutes sometimes because my muscles start shaking so fast. And it's not like I'm out of shape - it's just using them differently.

 

[Misspendragon]

And the judges' (and my pro's) expectations are MUCH higher for silver dancing.

If I can place well in silver, the expectations are not all that high, trust me . I wince every time I look at videos from comps. I cannot speak for Smooth, but in Latin, the difference between bronze and silver and gold really comes down to this: can you stay balanced on your feet and maintain frame and posture with increasingly more difficult figures, use at last some hip action, straighten your legs, and apply your arms to the extent that you don't look like a drowning monkey? And as you move to silver and especially gold, there will be an expectation of emotional/personal expression as well; judges want to see you in your dancing. And from what I can tell, you can put a checkmark next to all these items.

I will say this, though: there are some distinct advantages you may count on if you stay longer in bronze. I will be beaten at USDC so badly because I only did 6 months of bronze in my entire life, which shows up in my lack of frame (which is so heavily emphasized in bronze training). Attitude (commitment, heart, and personality) combined with some other well-working technical elements I acquired later may help me place well in mid-level comps, but high-end silver dancers have it all, frame included.

 

[joy]

If I can place well in silver, the expectations are not all that high, trust me

Oh girl. You are a very good dancer. Own it, and flounce it in your feather dress!

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

my reputation as a b

"B" is for "boss"
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boss#:~:text=slang,boss
(3rd definition from the top)

 

[ChaCha1]

If I can place well in silver, the expectations are not all that high, trust me . I wince every time I look at videos from comps.

I have seen clips of you at Millennium, you are a good dancer. Believe in yourself!

I cannot speak for Smooth, but in Latin, the difference between bronze and silver and gold really comes down to this: can you stay balanced on your feet and maintain frame and posture with increasingly more difficult figures, use at last some hip action, straighten your legs, and apply your arms to the extent that you don't look like a drowning monkey? And as you move to silver and especially gold, there will be an expectation of emotional/personal expression as well; judges want to see you in your dancing. And from what I can tell, you can put a checkmark next to all these items.

In my opinion, it's the same in rhythm. (Well, not exactly the same straight leg part) The figures are a little more complex, and the expectations are of course higher.

Best place to review Silver figures is from the NDCA on YouTube: Silver Rhythm

 

[Warren J. Dew]

OK, but serious answer: open bronze gives you the chance to try out your newbie silver skills, without being compared directly against actual silver dancers.

Hey, an actual logical explanation for why open bronze and open silver exist! I had to answer this question the other day and basically just took a guess - I knew what they were, but not really why.

There's an article here that has some useful descriptions of how the levels are different.

Also useful, especially regarding subdivisions like presilver. Of course, the ISTD syllabus isn't subdivided that way, except for the student teacher syllabus used for prebronze, so what these subdivisions mean for international style is still a bit vague, other than the "more categories lets the pro dance with more students" explanation.

 

[ChaCha1]

Hey, an actual logical explanation for why open bronze and open silver exist! I had to answer this question the other day and basically just took a guess - I knew what they were, but not really why.

Not sure the real reason, but pre-silver was for newbie silver dancers. Before there was a gold category, open bronze, open silver would provide a couple of extra rounds for open dancers. So, open bronze, open silver, open that way they had the option of 3 rounds. The categories are so much better defined now, so it may be a hold over. At least that is my memory from when I started dancing almost 20 years ago.

I currently see my old studio having new open dancers start with open bronze (or silver) to see how they do with an open routine, while still doing their closed routines in the closed rounds. That way they can dabble in open and not loose out on the option to do their closed scholarship.

 

[DanceMentor]

What matters is the trajectory that you're on. If you're consistently placing low, your somewhat training the judges on how to place you. In essence, they see a pattern of you losing, so then it can be that much harder to convince them otherwise.

That's why it can be good to compete at smaller events and help the judges to see how well you do there, and even perhaps compete in a lower level if it is permissible.