Play, Improvisation and Fun

[africana]

This is an off-shoot of my exchange with tacad in the "Stag" thread on the concept of stepping outside the lead-follow box, dancing with more imagination, improvising to the music

I don't have a video of myself to show but I found a good example of this philosophy of salsa dancing on imambo.tv
log in first and
- click on: http://www.imambo.tv/mambo/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=47&page=view&catid=51&key=8&hit=1
or
- go to: Mainscreen > PaLante Social with Delph > pablo_wilmarie.wmv

some key observations
- there is lead/follow through most of the dance, he leads her through some mambo patterns

-But watch how the girl is comfortable with initiating crossovers, and her own independent freestyling, in addition to inserting styling while following

-the overall feel is earthy and funky, with guaguanco/rumba moves that match the transition of the music to rumba

-they interact well both in hand-held positions and separately

-this dance is a real partnership rather than the lead executing his will on the follow 100% of the time or vice versa. in fact at certain points there is no classic lead/follow, and the roles even switch as she changes their physical oreintation to the camera

-the girl has personality and is not afraid to show it, definitely not a doormat follow

-this is required 3-way communication. lead-follow-music

So what do you think tacad?

 

[tacad]

Ok I watched it 3 times, now. The first time I was a total guy thinking "That is one hot lady!" 8) :lol:

The second time I noticed her freestyling and styling during the lead/follow portion. I noticed that she was defintitely including him in everything she did.
It was not a case of her dancing by herself and ignoring him. So that was totally cool. And (aside from hot) her dancing was a pleasure to watch. Interesting, original, definitely her own personality! Awesome!

I'm not really clear on what a crossover is. Cross body lead?

The third time through I concentrated on how the two of them interacted and watched the guy a bit more. They interacted really well during the lead/follow. they played off each other really well. One would initiate some kind of styling (carressing hair or whatever) the other would respond. Both initiating and responding. He didn't really seem up to the freestyling, though. She was involving him just as much as in the lead/follow, but he wasn't really responding. He wasn't initiating either. She was working it. He wasn't. I have no idea why.

I'll look at it again tomorrow after you tell me what a crossover is :wink: and look for her initiating that. Awesome. Hot. Confident (he being the exception to that on the freestyle). Interaction. Playing off each other. Yeah. Works for me! :wink:

What did you think of his freestyling? Did he seem up to it? It just felt like he dropped the ball a bit to me.

 

[Lucretia]

Great clip, great dance, great dancers and great music! Of course I like her style!

I like it especially beacuse it is not "perfect". Perfect means very often stereotype and artificial. Sometimes I get the feeling the girl is pretty tired but the music makes here dancing more and more. She cannot stop. She cannot be tactical and "slow down" to get her breath back. But this makes the clip much more enjoyable. It is true!



/Luc

 

[yola]

The second time I noticed her freestyling and styling during the lead/follow portion. I noticed that she was defintitely including him in everything she did.
It was not a case of her dancing by herself and ignoring him.

The third time through I concentrated on how the two of them interacted and watched the guy a bit more. They interacted really well during the lead/follow. they played off each other really well. One would initiate some kind of styling (carressing hair or whatever) the other would respond. Both initiating and responding. He didn't really seem up to the freestyling, though. She was involving him just as much as in the lead/follow, but he wasn't really responding. He wasn't initiating either. She was working it. He wasn't. I have no idea why.

yep.. i agree.. she was totally trying to involve him.. playing with him, but he didn't really respond..
i liked her, but i've seen better interaction between man and woman (while freestyling). maybe he was just enjoying the ride..

 

[alemana]

nice clip... hadn't seen this one before. yes she did seem a tad bit tired - i often do that "shakey shakey" bit like that when i'm tired and need to coast for a minute.

 

[africana]

The second time I noticed her freestyling and styling during the lead/follow portion. I noticed that she was defintitely including him in everything she did.
It was not a case of her dancing by herself and ignoring him.

The third time through I concentrated on how the two of them interacted and watched the guy a bit more. They interacted really well during the lead/follow. they played off each other really well. One would initiate some kind of styling (carressing hair or whatever) the other would respond. Both initiating and responding. He didn't really seem up to the freestyling, though. She was involving him just as much as in the lead/follow, but he wasn't really responding. He wasn't initiating either. She was working it. He wasn't. I have no idea why.

yep.. i agree.. she was totally trying to involve him.. playing with him, but he didn't really respond..
i liked her, but i've seen better interaction between man and woman (while freestyling). maybe he was just enjoying the ride..

Yes again this makes my point about "can handle it"
She put it down, he got involved but only as far as he could go, but she keeps going as much as the music moves her. And overall they BOTH have a great time dancing TOGETHER even though she does dominate some parts of the dances. But he does respond, he does get into it, he just can't go for it as much as she can - and maybe he shouldn't, cos we ladies like to be the center of attention too
It also depends on how much experience both have dancing alone i.e. freestyling. It's obvious the girl has more abilities in that area and she uses that to great effect

Now she might dance with another partner and have him meet her at the same level of expression and energy and creativity, or he might even surpass her!
Such are the pleasures of an inexact dance, ANYTHING can happen depending on who has more energy, who's feeling it more, who's allowing the other partner to shine. It's a constant negotiation and very fun

 

[africana]

I'm not really clear on what a crossover is. Cross body lead?

No it's when she steps across while they are dancing solo, to switch postions. She does it most clearly towards the end when she faces the camera

 

[africana]

Great clip, great dance, great dancers and great music! Of course I like her style!

I like it especially beacuse it is not "perfect". Perfect means very often stereotype and artificial. Sometimes I get the feeling the girl is pretty tired but the music makes here dancing more and more. She cannot stop. She cannot be tactical and "slow down" to get her breath back. But this makes the clip much more enjoyable. It is true!
/Luc

Yes I like that it's not perfect
yeah so she gets tired, that's natural right? with the way she expends energy, the way she dances with passion giving it her all, that's real stuff!

It's like she can't help herself, she just HAS to keep dancing because the music makes her so insane she can't stop
I like the shakey shake thing alemana, nice way to save energy and recover her breath I do that sometimes in between tasking shines or moves

I much prefer dancing from the heart, with serious flavor than perfectly perfect all the time. Again it's all about how the music drives you, sometimes it's nice and smooth, but sometimes it can get real n dirty 8)

 

[Sagitta]

I totally agree with you africana.

 

[tacad]

I'm missing how she's the one changing their relative positions. :?

I'm glad you mentioned that the ladies like to have the attention sometimes, africana. I'm totally into the interaction and forget there is a crowd. So maybe,...., maybe,...., I'll have a clue when it happens.

 

[africana]

I'm pretty sure this is the right video, can't look now to see

But I think you get the point. salsa dancing is not a formula, it can be very spontaneous and exciting

 

[Big10]

He didn't really seem up to the freestyling, though. She was involving him just as much as in the lead/follow, but he wasn't really responding. He wasn't initiating either. She was working it. He wasn't. I have no idea why.

yep.. i agree.. she was totally trying to involve him.. playing with him, but he didn't really respond..
i liked her, but i've seen better interaction between man and woman (while freestyling). maybe he was just enjoying the ride..

But he does respond, he does get into it, he just can't go for it as much as she can - and maybe he shouldn't, cos we ladies like to be the center of attention too
It also depends on how much experience both have dancing alone i.e. freestyling. It's obvious the girl has more abilities in that area and she uses that to great effect

I thought the different interpretations of Pablo's "response" were interesting. Personally, I agree with africana that Pablo did respond to what Wilmarie was doing (although I disagree with africana's qualifier that Pablo "can't go for it as much"). Even when Wilmarie was changing positions, or one of them might turn a back to the other one, Pablo kept his physical proximity about the same, along with frequent smiles and eye contact. He simply had a slightly different style of rumba movement than she did. In my mind, "responding" does not require duplicating your partner's movements. It's more about creating a connection with each other (and the music) that is difficult to put into words :? ....but I could definitely see it between Pablo and Wilmarie during that dance!

 

[africana]

cool 8) I see your point Big10

He has his own way of responding, no need to mirror each other perfectly, and isn't that the point of it?
I really think that it's also great to showcase the lady (if she's good at it). it's like a beautiful flower, you admire it. Rather than always trying to one-up her.
And also vice versa, I find that I enjoy watching my partner do his thing (if he's up to it) while I just do the basic or something simple, I can admire him and the attention is on him for those few seconds (while I catch my breath for the next move )

there's also a place to "compete" with each other, see what moves you can each come up with, it's a lot of fun

but the key is interaction!

 

[tacad]

Yeah. I get it as well, Big10. I watched him again. During the freestyling he is interacting with her, smiling, looking at her. Yeah. Good stuff!

 

[africana]

hey tacad here's THE best male mambo dancer in the world dancng with probably a stranger, not at his level. He's leading her but still expressing musicality (alot!), still doing some cool stuff - watch his feet. the girl looks a tad overwhelmed (understandable! I would be probably be scared stiff with so many people watching!!!) but she just keeps connecting and following

http://salsaseb.com/Frankie_Paris.wmv

By the way, I'm still working on finding some mambo-style cha cha clips (haven't had much time + luck yet!)

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Oh my frickin word check this out
http://www.borntosalsa.com/Downloads-index-req-getit-lid-104.html

And much better quality than the version I saw on imambo.tv