POLL: are solo followers encouraged / allowed / discouraged/ not allowed to take classes / workshops without a partner?

[opendoor]

Finding suitable partners is a very real challenge. But this is one reason private lessons are popular.

Not really. Bought attention is kind of boring. You're moved, but not really wanted. There are other survival strategies in social dance. Many followers bind leaders by organizing parties and get-togethers away from the dancefloor. In my opinion, however, the most important tool is educating newcomers. I learned my vocabulary from experienced followers, so I'll always dance with them as soon as they show up. And it continues: I give feedback on the dance floor to newby followers. And now they're asking me to dance. Many posts here on DF have criticized teaching on the dancefloor. I believe it's one of the most proven mechanisms of social dance ever.

 

[Bailango]

Because you're not in any "groups" who do this kind of thing (thankfully?), and you have a very narrow mind of teachers — numbers alone (i.e. profit) don't have to be the only reason.

I meant if instructor organized one. I would have heard if there were privately organized workshops. Though I am not in any groups, I do have informants

You're right in that a cap on numbers is good for increasing the minimum time spent by the teacher with each couple, but that is no guarantee of quality of workshop partners. I think that requires a minimum level of assessment and scrutinization which plenty would consider invasive, not to mention ego-bursting, and so they would rather not try to participate in the first place.

I do not know how they assess but some workshops insist that you are at a certain level so you don’t slow down the class. I think if it is a special workshop and there is a notice to that effect then it does reduce those less skilled. There are always people who overestimate their skills. Some instructors won’t slow down class for them. It varies and depends on the instructors on how they run the class. Whether it of open or for certain level.

 

[Bailango]

Many posts here on DF have criticized teaching on the dancefloor. I believe it's one of the most proven mechanisms of social dance ever.

I totally disagree. For multiple reasons.

 

[pianistamediano]

Some instructors won’t slow down class for them.

Best attitude to have! Sink or swim, nary an instance of mollycoddling in sight. If people complain, well, if it is self-selecting, then they only have themselves to blame.

I also don't like how teachers delay classes for latecomers. Arriving late should not go unpunished, and one should have already planned for any reasonable delays. Of course, we can't plan for acts of God — fingers crossed a freak earthquake doesn't ruin everyone's day — but the attempt should be made, and the students who were early or on time should not be punished by having to wait for the offenders.

 

[opendoor]

I totally disagree. For multiple reasons.

Do you want to go with the flow?

 

[lucia_l]

Not really. Bought attention is kind of boring.

Attention? When I take lessons, I want instruction. I don't find dance instruction boring.

You're moved, but not really wanted.

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think my teachers year for my love? Or what?

There are other survival strategies in social dance. Many followers bind leaders by organizing parties and get-togethers away from the dancefloor.

Honestly, if my goal is to learn to dance, I'd much rather just hire a teacher and take lessons that organize a party or get together hoping to get invited people to teach me to dance. The clean up, hosting, snacks etc for a party at my place would be such a hassel! It's really hard to imagine anyone who is not already a devoted tango dancer would organize such a thing. And beginners don't know the devoted tango follows. I imagine they are unlikely to hear of these parties or be invited!

In my opinion, however, the most important tool is educating newcomers. I learned my vocabulary from experienced followers, so I'll always dance with them as soon as they show up. And it continues: I give feedback on the dance floor to newby followers. And now they're asking me to dance. Many posts here on DF have criticized teaching on the dancefloor. I believe it's one of the most proven mechanisms of social dance ever.

I don't do AT much. I dabbled a little. Maybe you do dance with newbies as soon as the show up. But I really doubt I'd find a ton of experienced amateurs flocking to teach me if I showed up at a milonga. I think I'd be even more unwelcome than the Zouk instructor who described the Tango dancers as being rather unfriendly and stand-offish!!

I'm pretty sure the experienced amateur tango leaders would rather (a) spend most their time dancing with other already experienced dancers or (b) dancing with younger prettier newbies. ( Not splamming myself. But I'm 66 yo. )

I also hate it when intermediate dancers decide to "teach" me on the floor. If I did show up at a AT venue, I would rather they just danced down and lead simple things I already know. If you lead an Ocho and I didn't follow it, I don't want you to teach me. I want you to recognize I'm really truly a beginner, dance down and let me practice walking!

If I decided I absolutely wanted to learn tango and wanted to get practice on a tango floor, I'd probably be happier hiring a taxi dancer than going to some gathering and hope that leads are going to flock to me and fill my dance card with lessons! Then I would instruct the taxi dancer to stick to the level that represents "practice" not "learning". If he didn't, I'd fire him and find someone new.

Why fire him? Because I want to have fun. I'm not there to boost the ego of some lead who wants to "teach"! When I want lessons, I'll take lessons!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

It's not so different from what I did: renting a practice space for two hours a week and then experimenting with friends. Pedagogically speaking, this is more effective because you can teach each other. What kind of "tango teacher" nowadays still is didactically competent?

This is actually a very good idea. I've rented space and practiced with a partner. You can get a lot done because there are no distractions and it's just the two (or four) of you. It's basically a private práctica.

 

[opendoor]

...I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think my teachers year for my love? Or what?

I wrote about something else. Many advanced followers love dancing with good amateurs at socials/milongas. They want to be discovered and found. A paid hour with a professional is no substitute for this group.

 

[tangoing]

I wrote about something else. Many advanced followers love dancing with good amateurs at socials/milongas. They want to be discovered and found. A paid hour with a professional is no substitute for this group.

That depends a lot on the community. In NYC milongas that’s rarely gonna be the case unless it’s maybe the very beginning of the night or it’s a known student that’s improving quickly.
This can potentially happen at practicas though.

 

[itwillhappen]

I also hate it when intermediate dancers decide to "teach" me on the floor.

Why hate? Why exactly don't you just tell them to stop teaching in a relaxed manner?
And if that doesn't happen, why don't you dance with someone else, and if no volunteer is available, with someone you pay?

 

[itwillhappen]

Attention? When I take lessons, I want instruction. I don't find dance instruction boring.

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think my teachers year for my love? Or what?

There are plenty of people who seek and need attention; it's a basic need. Often, they don't get it (anymore) from their partner, if they have one in the background, let alone sympathy, touch, or even intimacy. And a few honest tips on dance style from a relative expert are then very gladly accepted.

 

[itwillhappen]

What is it about the NYC community that puts participants at milongas under so much stress?

Personally, I can choose whether and when I like to dance with unknown partners. So I danced with my future girlfriend for the first time relatively late in the evening.

 

[opendoor]

..In NYC milongas that’s rarely gonna be the case..

Maybe you don't have the overview, because I suspect your scene is much larger than mine. Maybe you should ask a 60+ tanguera who's been dancing for 30 years.

 

[lucia_l]

I wrote about something else. Many advanced followers love dancing with good amateurs at socials/milongas. They want to be discovered and found. A paid hour with a professional is no substitute for this group.

Perhaps. But I'm not substituting a paid profession for an "advanced follower who loves dancing with good amateur". Such a person would want to dance with a good amateur lead.

But, I'm a follower and I stipulated "beginner". That generally precludes actually being "good". So I would be looking for an advanced lead who likes to dance with poor amateurs follows at socials and milongas. I think it's fairly unlikely there are hoards of advanced leads who want to spend a large part of the evening dancing with incompetent beginners who have learned nearly nothing yet. And I think the likelihood there are hoards of them is even lower for me owing to the fact that I am 66 years old and not 25-40.

And beyond that: A professional paid by the hour is certain to fill my dance card. And I can ensure he's minimally competent.

I can hope some advanced lead will give him a break and take over. But I think that's rather slim. I'd rather dance that sit around doing nothing. There is literally no point in going, sitting... hoping... hoping... hoping. Maybe getting one dance-- probably with someone who is not advanced, and then going home. I certainly won't learn anything nor will I improve.

 

[lucia_l]

Why hate? Why exactly don't you just tell them to stop teaching in a relaxed manner?

Sure. But are you under the impression that works? It generally does not. I would much rather they just stopped trying to teach, and danced down. The opposite is stressful for me. I can't control people or make a rule. But I am certainly going to have feelings and emotions, and I find it very very stressful when someone decides to "teach" on a social floor. So I hate it when they do that.

The leads who do it are generally intermediates. Really good dancers just recognize I don't know how to do it yet, and are usually fine with not dancing that step. Intermediates sometimes want to practice things that are semi-new to them. They are under the impression that if they manage to teach me, then they will be able to practice the pattern. Often, they can dance it with an advanced dancer, but they don't know it as well as they think and they aren't someone I would go to for a lesson.

And if that doesn't happen, why don't you dance with someone else, and if no volunteer is available, with someone you pay?

I absolutely do try to avoid anyone who tries to teach me on the floor!! I've also said repeatedly that I would prefer to dance with someone I pay. Opendoor keeps explaining to me that that it's somehow better to rely on a non-teacher. And I keep saying I'd rather hire a taxi dancer than rely on volunteer non-teachers to teach me on the social dance floor!