POLL: are solo followers encouraged / allowed / discouraged/ not allowed to take classes / workshops without a partner?

POLL: are solo followers encouraged / allowed / discouraged/ not allowed to take classes / workshops


  • Total voters
    13
I don't have a dog in the fight about whether style or technique is more important.
Some 'styles' I avoid. Some styles can be restrictive, but one can adapt with technique. Technique always matters (usually mine, to lead that 'style').

In the end it doesn't matter whether they're 'advanced' or a novice if we have a good tanda.
 
In my experience dance style / philosophy is MORE important than skill once a dancer is competent enough not to be uncomfortable to dance with, what's the use of two people being good dancers if they want different things.
I'd maybe qualify that by saying "for a given level of skill or ability" style is more important. The skill or ability needn't always be the same but style or philosophy are important.
 
Does she just decide to do an ocho or volcada whenever she wants?
Ochos can go wrong! Like a classic ocho cortado doesn't get 'cut' (other mishaps occur!). But it was a 'proposal'. Or maybe a 'reverse ocho' (not a back ocho!) doesn't get recognised (you can't do that!), or an over-rotated ocho isn't over-rotated sufficiently for, say, walking sacadas.

Volcadas! How about when the follower doesn't feel safe doing them with that leader? Or has never learnt them? You adapt. I don't think you can 'lean' (simplistic and incomplete description!) without a partner preparing that.

It's not choreographed, but part of following is knowing sufficient vocabulary, and knowing the 'fluency' of the leader. It's a conversation - but, ideally, it's not led from one side. Part of the leader role is sometimes to follow the follower.

Worst followers to lead are the hyperactive ones!

I used to dance regularly with a petite Asian lady (sadly deceased). She looked almost frail, but if she didn't want to be led there, you wouldn't shift her, so you responded to that with something else, or she'd decide to adapt something you'd led. Some great tandas:)
 
Does she just decide to do an ocho or volcada whenever she wants?

no, "pivot this angle" and "don't step, I'm changing the axis" are also directions. it's more that the follower can do multiple steps or decorations where the default response to the lead would be to take one step. there is an opposite version where leader does multiple small steps in a line and the follower responds with one.

there is also lead hijacking but usually its contextual and the follower won't do ochos at random times.
 
it's more that the follower can do multiple steps or decorations where the default response to the lead would be to take one step.
Sure. But don't pretend the follow can do whatever she wants She restrcited to responding. That's a big restriction. And she has to catch what the lead is "suggesting".
 
Does she just decide to do an ocho or volcada whenever she wants?
Depends. Both figures are led. In tango, the couple is closed at chest height, and the hip level can be moved in isolation. Isolated from the upper body level (dissociation) and also independently of the partner due to the distance.

a) In the ocho, the follower has no choice but to pivot over the supporting leg when the leader turnes the upper level.
b) In the volcada, the follower has no choice but to tip over when the partner's upper body signals to stand still but simultaneously moves away from her with the lower level.

I wrote "depends" above because in the thread Dancing "Selfishly" vs. "Assistively" I described that there are situations in which I grant freedom and situations in which I don't. And the follower can also ignore the lead and insert auxiliary and rescue steps as not to fall.

(Off topic: Do you only deal with tango technique theoretically, or do you also practice it?)
 
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Depends. Both figures are led
The figure is lead implies she does it when it is lead. Nor that she "just takes her own steps". I get she moves herself-- but it's within a constraint of what is lead.
a) In the ocho, the follower has no choice but to pivot over the supporting leg when the leader turnes the upper level.
"the follower has no choice" implies she... uhmmm has not choice.

b) In the volcada, the follower has no choice but to tip over when the partner's upper body signals to stand still but simultaneously moves away from her with the lower level.
"the follower has no choice" implies no choice.
So, as I suggested the follower choices are constrained.



I wrote "depends" above because in the thread Dancing "Selfishly" vs. "Assistively" I described that there are situations in which I grant freedom and situations in which I don't.
"I grant freedom" implies you as a lead have the option to grant freedom or not. Which means you might not 'grant' it. And the follower doesn't just have it.

(Off topic: Do you only deal with tango technique theoretically, or do you also practice it?)
I deal with lead/follow in a practical way. And I think it's silly for leads to not recognize that following has some constraints. Specifically, these are the constraints you leads are explaining exist while simultaneously denying they exist.

I mean, seriously: decide if the follow is constrained to follow or whether she leads you and is not constrained in any way. Because it's on or the other.
 
Sure. But don't pretend the follow can do whatever she wants She restrcited to responding. That's a big restriction. And she has to catch what the lead is "suggesting".
I haven't heard anyone "pretend the follow can do whatever she wants." My point is that the leader doesn't need to lead every step. For example, I can lead an anti-clockwise giro – that is, I intend to pivot 360 degrees to the left. With a complete beginner, I might well lead every step. But I won't with anyone else, so the follower could respond with:
- the classic giro steps, at my proposed speed
- the classic giro steps, but accelerating or decelerating at any point
- a milonguero turn
- double-time steps
- quadruple-time steps (more advanced followers)
- some mix of step timing
And if I'm purely pivoting on one foot, so she is turning me, she could do less than 360 degrees, or more.

Tango is a partnership, not a dictatorship.
 
And I think it's silly for leads to not recognize that following has some constraints.
'Leading' (for want of a better, acceptable, word) also has constraints. It's a conversation within boundaries (music, floor, steps, ability, technique...), not a single-sided diktat. Although I do sometimes feel that an 'appeal', that shows like DWTS/Strictly portray, is that the follower (usually female) allows the lead (usually male) to dictate whatever they want, i.e. the 'follow' is just the instrument to be 'played'.
 
..decide if the follow is constrained to follow or whether she leads you and is not constrained..
"Constrained" does not mean "forced." Lead, by definition, always is clear; there's no room for interpretation. But the follower doesn't have to follow, because leading doesn't work by pushing, tugging, shoving, or physical inpact. It's only a language called projection (commencement). I only signal direction, distance, and timing two seconds in advance. The follower either executes or leaves it. Leading isn't physical. This is my philosophy, most tango dancers may differ.

Scene change: Depending on my mood, I can also switch into the following role, provided the former follower then speaks the language of projection.
 
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I haven't heard anyone "pretend the follow can do whatever she wants." My point is that the leader doesn't need to lead every step. For example, I can lead an anti-clockwise giro – that is, I intend to pivot 360 degrees to the left. With a complete beginner, I might well lead every step.
Sure.
But I won't with anyone else, so the follower could respond with:
- the classic giro steps, at my proposed speed
- the classic giro steps, but accelerating or decelerating at any point
- a milonguero turn
- double-time steps
- quadruple-time steps (more advanced followers)
- some mix of step timing
And if I'm purely pivoting on one foot, so she is turning me, she could do less than 360 degrees, or more.

Tango is a partnership, not a dictatorship.
But she can't suddenly do a volcada.
 
Sure. But don't pretend the follow can do whatever she wants She restrcited to responding. That's a big restriction. And she has to catch what the lead is "suggesting".

I do actually explicitly tell the followers they can do whatever they want.

The follower dances on a different timing a split second later so they she receives the leader's intention first. she can either go with the flow or decide to do something else instead. A typical example is a follower deciding to do a gancho that wasn't led because they know the leader isn't going to move the target leg anywhere. They can block and redirect a step if theres an obstacle not spotted by the leader, or just to play around

Some followers prefer to just execute the leader's intention, it is a choice. It could be relaxing not to have to be in control.
 

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