Pro/am Requirement to Dance Heats to do Championships

[DanceMentor]

La Classique now requires two sets of singles to be scholarship eligible, and I believe Dancesport Montreal does as well.

It's definitely a thing.

This is correct. I wrote them and they replied:
"I know that many competitions require 5 single per scholarships. We require 10 to enter scholarships events."

 

[Mr 4 styles]

its canada ....they don't have as many event to choose from

 

[DanceMentor]

Well, First Coast requires eight entries per scholarship, so I suppose it's only two full sets for smooth. But it's the one I was thinking of.

http://firstcoastclassic.com/#event-info

(I'll note that I've heard nothing but good things about the event itself. I don't *really* mean to criticize it - even if I don't think it's a competition for me.)

I contacted the organizers about this and they confirmed that 8 single entries per style were required saying that this would allow the judges to see more of my dancing.

 

[snapdancer]

I contacted the organizers about this and they confirmed that 8 single entries per style were required saying that this would allow the judges to see more of my dancing.

Really? So then they'll be sure to have the same judging panel for all the single dances AND the scholarships? My BS detector is going DING! DING! DING!

If they think the judges need to see more of your dancing, then they'll play the songs longer during each heat. There's a reason for requiring more single dances, and it's not this reason handed out for public consumption.

 

[danceronice]

Really? So then they'll be sure to have the same judging panel for all the single dances AND the scholarships? My BS detector is going DING! DING! DING!

If they think the judges need to see more of your dancing, then they'll play the songs longer during each heat. There's a reason for requiring more single dances, and it's not this reason handed out for public consumption.

Yeah, I'm trying to remember the last time I've even had the same panel for heats danced early in the day and heats danced later, let alone single vs scholarship.

 

[FancyFeet]

Um... exactly never for me. The panels aren't even the same number of judges, usually, and there is very little overlap.

And @DanceMentor thanks for asking the rationale and sharing the answers. I've long wanted to know the answer, but as I compete in the category, have been reticent to ask.

 

[DanceMentor]

Um... exactly never for me. The panels aren't even the same number of judges, usually, and there is very little overlap.

And @DanceMentor thanks for asking the rationale and sharing the answers. I've long wanted to know the answer, but as I compete in the category, have been reticent to ask.

I think you have to understand that these people are there to sell entries. I believe Sam Sodano often repeat the phrase "participation in the first step to winning", or something like this.

But I don't think there is much of a consumer watch group when it comes to ballroom dancing. Simply they make the rules and we follow them, sometimes with very little insight into what exactly we are paying for. So as best as I can say, it is good to ask lots of questions and help each other!

 

[sbrnsmith]

I am starting to look at this a little different than most- what if I want to dance several rounds of single dances, in two age categories, and then dance the multi dances? Is it fair to me if someone who's not spending the same, or putting in the time, effort, supporting the comp with more entries etc jumps in to do the scholarship?
Please don't jump in to attack. I'm not suggesting one way or the other is right

 

[JudeMorrigan]

I would simply argue that it is a competition, and in theory, the competitive portion of the events should be about who the best dancer is, not who does the most to support the comp. Now, I've come to appreciate that organizers do need to make their bottom line, and that may require at least some prerequisites for the events. But I genuinely struggle to see why anyone would want those to be anything other than as small as practical. Don't you *want* to test yourself against as large and robust of fields as possible?

Of course, none of that should be taken as an objection to the idea of the larger spenders getting perks outside the competitive events. VIP dinners, gift baskets, top student awards to the extent that they're influenced by entry volume - whatever makes y'all happy.

 

[fascination]

Exactly...not sure how it could be unfair to someone who does 5 sets before the scholarship that someone else chooses to do the minimum..no one makes anyone else do that many...the goal is to be the best dancer in the scholarship....regardless of what one chooses to do before that...and I say that as someone who has done both

 

[FancyFeet]

Honestly, I'd rather just pay more for my multi/scholarship event (and not have to get up and be in a gown, hair and make-up early in the morning and dance in an empty ballroom, in events that don't matter and are largely uncontested that cost me a significant amount once you add in pro per-dance fees). If they were free or only cost me a nominal amount, sure, I'll dance... and if I could dance them in practicewear and a ponytail AND for next to nothing, I'm totally in.

That said, I'm aware that a huge part of my perspective comes from the fact that I don't want to be dancing pro-am... which means that I have some issues with the whole construct, as sometimes it feels like I'm being penalized for not having a partner. I know pro-am is great for some, and is exactly where they want to be - and they most likely do not share my perspective.

Edited to add: And what I'd really like is to have no pre-requirements at all, and to pay the same entry fee as ams, and get the same scheduling and prize money perks... that's how it works in my happy-rainbow-unicorn land

 

[stash]

Yes. I will attest to the fact that I am not a pro/am dancer. But more money/=better dancer. Assuming said other dancer has done everything necessary to be entered into the scholarship, I don't see the problem.

You decided to spend x amount, and that reward can become top student depending on how you spent relative to everyone else (from my understand of pro/am). But the comp organizers don't owe you a spot in the scholarships just because you spent x. It just means you have better access to the resources that can get you there (possibly) than the other person.

 

[Squall]

I would simply argue that it is a competition, and in theory, the competitive portion of the events should be about who the best dancer is, not who does the most to support the comp. Now, I've come to appreciate that organizers do need to make their bottom line, and that may require at least some prerequisites for the events. But I genuinely struggle to see why anyone would want those to be anything other than as small as practical. Don't you *want* to test yourself against as large and robust of fields as possible?

Of course, none of that should be taken as an objection to the idea of the larger spenders getting perks outside the competitive events. VIP dinners, gift baskets, top student awards to the extent that they're influenced by entry volume - whatever makes y'all happy.

If to organizers, it's just a question of "how to allocate costs to different dances/dancers", then they're doing it in a way that just pisses people off more than is necessary. They could, instead, simply charge more for the multi-dance events and then give discounts for also entering single-dance events. Volume discounts are generally well-understood and well-accepted by people. "Forcing" people to buy goods that they don't want by bundling them just creates ill-will.

 

[danceronice]

I am starting to look at this a little different than most- what if I want to dance several rounds of single dances, in two age categories, and then dance the multi dances? Is it fair to me if someone who's not spending the same, or putting in the time, effort, supporting the comp with more entries etc jumps in to do the scholarship?
Please don't jump in to attack. I'm not suggesting one way or the other is right

Translation: I spent a bunch more money than you at the comp, I deserve reduced competition to making winning easier.

You're not putting in more effort, you're just spending more money. The other person may be taking a lot more lessons, reducing their ability to spend on single heats AND multi-dance, and reasonably are focusing their resources on maxing out lessons to improve their chances in a multi-dance, which costs more to enter and has a bigger reward. The comp rewards the biggest spender with the Top Student awards, so while I totally understand having a modest requirement (a round of singles at the level multi you'll do later) to enter the scholarships, if you use those requirements to flush out everyone except those with the deepest pockets, you're going to turn off other competitors.

And I agree with Squall as well. Volume discounts are cool. The more you buy, the more you save, is common in a lot of markets. But bundling is annoying--look at cable/satellite packages. It irks me that to get a single channel I want, I have to add on an entire sports package with a dozen channels I don't, and that my "basic" package includes hundreds of channels I don't even put on the menu screen. I skip comps completely that require me to buy packages I won't use (crappy hotel buffet food, room rates I can only get if I stay more nights than I actually can-some of us have to work, etc) or spend a bunch of money on tacky gifts I'm not even going to grab because they're just going to end up in a Goodwill bin (these tacky little pincushion or jewelry holder thing from one comp sticks out-shaped like a dress form, totally NOT something I'd ever want, and even if they were only 4.99 each at Big Lots or something like it, that was a bunch of money on tacky junk that got rolled into the cost of my heats.)

 

[singndance]

I don't mind having to enter a set of single dances to be eligible for the scholarship in that style. I understand the organizers have a lot of expenses that need to be paid. I like to do a run through before competing in the scholarship. But I really don't like it when the single dances are the day before the scholarship event. In that case, I just can't do it because it means an extra night at the hotel, more meals, an extra fee for the pro, etc., and it is just prohibitively expensive. Yes granted, this only happens at big comps, but still....