Random thoughts about following

[chanchan]

What I learned as "active following" is what one of my teachers calls "er"-ing your leader. Ie, if he leads small- go smaller. If he leads big- go bigger, soft, go softer, etc... In other words, take his lead and fully go with to its natural conclusion and really participate in the motion, not just let yourself be "placed" everywhere.

I know what you mean. I can say it is wonderful, when it is sincere: when the follower does it in special moments, when she really feels like it.
It can become annoying if done costantly at every step.
If you don't really think that in this moment your step should be soft, there is no point that you do it softer than me!
Moreover, sometimes the leader just wants you to do a step of a given degree of softness, or lenght: nothing more and nothing less. Maybe a larger step will bring you too close to the next couple and shorter step wouldn't allow to do what he has in mind.

In general, I'd say that as a rule of thumb the two partners can't be active at the same moment, because it would mean that they are dancing alone: when one of them is active, the other one is listening.
So, adornos are welcome, like active following, and hijacking. But remeber that in those moments it's like if you temporarily take the lead: you can't do that continuously...

 

[dchester]

I would dance differently to Pugliese than to canyengue, but they are all, for me, still connection songs.

Yeah, a lot of people would agree with you. I just think it's one of my personal quirks, that different songs will give me very different (or maybe more complicated) emotions.

Some Pugliese songs are connections songs for me as well, but others are more dramatic and dynamic. Some sections are more about the connection while other sections will motivate me in a different direction, (actually, it's never so black and white as that, but more, different shades or layers).

 

[bastet]

I know what you mean. I can say it is wonderful, when it is sincere: when the follower does it in special moments, when she really feels like it.
It can become annoying if done costantly at every step.
If you don't really think that in this moment your step should be soft, there is no point that you do it softer than me!
Moreover, sometimes the leader just wants you to do a step of a given degree of softness, or lenght: nothing more and nothing less. Maybe a larger step will bring you too close to the next couple and shorter step wouldn't allow to do what he has in mind.

In general, I'd say that as a rule of thumb the two partners can't be active at the same moment, because it would mean that they are dancing alone: when one of them is active, the other one is listening.
So, adornos are welcome, like active following, and hijacking. But remeber that in those moments it's like if you temporarily take the lead: you can't do that continuously...

It's ok, you still don't understand what I'm talking about and are thinking very literally. There is a certain loss of translation in any lead, I think, that the "er"=ing concept attempts to correct so a lead is read correctly. It's not a highjack, or a takeover, or an adorno (whatever that may mean to you because I don't see how tapping my toe as we walk could possibly highjack someone's lead unless I actually stop to do it or let it go above my knees.....)

 

[bastet]

well i got the idea from a woman......and I know (at least) one who loves vals another who loves alternative and another who loves milonga and they look for me to dance with...

I certainly understand this aspect. There are leaders that I think are better at interpretation of some things than others, or I like their interpretation of certain music, and also there are some things that move me to dance more than others.

 

[Subliminal]

IMO, active following is about being present in the step. It is the follower's way of reminding the leader that he is dancing with a real person and not a robot. The leader directs the size, speed, and direction of the step, but he does not move her. She moves herself, and gives her own emotional content to the step.

 

[bastet]

IMO, active following is about being present in the step. It is the follower's way of reminding the leader that he is dancing with a real person and not a robot. The leader directs the size, speed, and direction of the step, but he does not move her. She moves herself, and gives her own emotional content to the step.

That's right along the lines of what I mean by it also. The follower is, IMO, just as responsible as the leader for her steps. Otherwise, the follows tend to feel "difficult to move" or "stiff" or even worse "lifeless" like they have absolutely nothing invested in the dance they are dancing.

 

[chanchan]

It's ok, you still don't understand what I'm talking about and are thinking very literally. There is a certain loss of translation in any lead, I think, that the "er"=ing concept attempts to correct so a lead is read correctly. It's not a highjack, or a takeover, or an adorno (whatever that may mean to you because I don't see how tapping my toe as we walk could possibly highjack someone's lead unless I actually stop to do it or let it go above my knees.....)

Of course it's different, I just mentioned highjacks and adornos because they are other ways to be active. We could say that your kind of active following is "positive", the highjack is "negative" and the adorno is "neutral" with respect to the lead. But in any case you are "saying" something. Even when you are just tapping your toe: you are not highjacking, but you are affecting someway the dance. If you do it well, in the right moment, and with the right musicality, the dance will be enriched. If you do it bad, you will confuse the leader.

I'm not saying it is bad, I'm saying that it should be used to express yourself, not to compensate the loss of translation in the lead. It's the leader's role to provide such kind of compensations.

 

[AndaBien]

I like the idea of a leader guiding the dance, as opposed to leading. Guiding seems more gentle, and I think it also implies greater responsibility for the follower.

If two people are singing in technical unison they are both fully responsible for their own notes and lyrics, but within that framework they can both add their own distinct personality. And they both make an effort to stay with, and respond to, the other singer. I realize the analogy is imperfect, because there are usually not designated leader and follower roles in singing.

 

[dchester]

I like the idea of a leader guiding the dance, as opposed to leading. Guiding seems more gentle, and I think it also implies greater responsibility for the follower.

If two people are singing in technical unison they are both fully responsible for their own notes and lyrics, but within that framework they can both add their own distinct personality. And they both make an effort to stay with, and respond to, the other singer. I realize the analogy is imperfect, because there are usually not designated leader and follower roles in singing.

FWIW, I'm told that most Argentines do not use the terms leader and follower, except when in other countries (like here). They use the terms, man and woman.

A couple teachers have drilled into me, that no one follows anyone in tango. You accompany each other (which does fit in with your singing analogy).

 

[AndaBien]

FWIW, I'm told that most Argentines do not use the terms leader and follower, except when in other countries (like here). They use the terms, man and woman.

A couple teachers have drilled into me, that no one follows anyone in tango. You accompany each other (which does fit in with your singing analogy).

Yes. I think they also use "mark" (la marca) to refer to the lead, which I also like.

 

[jantango]

conversation: oral exchange of sentiments, observations, opinions and ideas.
communication: an act or instance of transmitting.
The latter is a better word for what occurs when a couple dances tango. Both transmit their energy.

IMO, active following is about being present in the step. It is the follower's way of reminding the leader that he is dancing with a real person and not a robot. The leader directs the size, speed, and direction of the step, but he does not move her. She moves herself, and gives her own emotional content to the step.

Being present in the moment is even better. Then you're not thinking about your feet or steps. A man never forgets that he's embracing a woman while she reciprocates with her embrace. Their connection in the embrace facilitates the movement; she goes where he goes, but has responsibility for changing weight from one foot to the other.

 

[LoveTango]

...

And for me my best partner, in our best dances does everything i lead, but when i dance with her i hear the music different, i lead the music she hears, and i am surprised at what i am leading and how it feels. This doesn't always happen, it doesn't even happen most of the time, but the times when we find that balance between me just leading what i hear in the music, and her just following what she hears in the music are what make me go to milongas

You said it much better.
- Now I understand why I am often transparent in this forum.

 

[newbie]

i want to say "listen to the music, and to my lead, and express that to the fullest, but it should look "on the outside" as if you were only following without modifying anything about my lead"

Same here, except "the outside" also includes me. There is the music, there is the follower materializing the music through my lead, if I perceive that she is doing something outside the boundaries of the lead (heartbeat, breathing) then it's a disturbance

 

[AndaBien]

...if I perceive that she is doing something outside the boundaries of the lead (heartbeat, breathing) then it's a disturbance

Are you saying that it disturbs you to hear or feel your partner breathe? Personally, I enjoy that.

 

[UKDancer]

I always find evidence that my partner is breathing rather reassuring ...