Reasons to give up Tango

[Numawan]

A methodological remark regarding Clay's survey. This is a voluntary survey. As a consequence, we need to keep in mind that there certainly is a self-selection bias in the sample of respondents.

In particular, 75% of responses come from people who did tango for a year or more, and only 5% of responses come from people who did tango for less than 3 months. However, we know that many people try out tango for a few lessons only and quit almost immediately. That group is certainly underrepresented in this survey.

If that group was properly represented, I suspect that we would get different reasons as reason for leaving tango. My personal guess:
- much more people who realised that they don't like tango music.
- much more people who found the first lessons uninteresting.
- much more people who didn't like the instructors.

 

[Brummbaer]

A methodological remark regarding Clay's survey

You also need to look at the dates of response and, possibly, the geographical area(s) this group selected from (which is alluded to above). It's certainly interesting given the number of responses and gives an insight, but it's not necessarily widely representative.

It's easy to speculate, but given the time lapse it would be interesting to know if there had been a remedial reaction and if that was 'successful' (whatever that's defined to be). Or was the survey ignored?

 

[Numawan]

Indeed.

 

[Numawan]

In my part of the world, even those who leave state that the scene is not exclusive or cliquish.

It might be correct. I tend to believe that tango communities tend to be relatively isolated islands. The 'Hamburg + neighbourhood' community might well have a different spirit than 'Portland + neighbourhood' (around 2009 BTW), or than 'Brussels + neighbourhood'.

 

[WhiskeyPapa]

The only opinion I have is about the pointlessness
of this survey request which adds nothing to an
understanding of tango.

Do feel free to comment on the pointlessness
of this response. Merry Christmas!

You could have ignored the survey and gotten on with you life without wasting time on a pointless response!

I think the survey asks a good question. Gender balance problems are a huge issue. For people who are serious, I think finding a good teacher is far more difficult than generally acknowledged. The other problem.

 

[opendoor]

..wasting time on a pointless..

We're like an old married couple, he mostly gets upset by my contributions
A happy New Year for everyone around!

 

[JohnEm]

We're like an old married couple,

Well that's just weird!

he mostly gets upset by my contributions

Never!!!

A happy New Year for everyone around!

At last we agree . . . . .

 

[ArbeeNYC]

- much more people who found the first lessons uninteresting.

Yes, but from the survey a large number of respondents found the first lessons fun and interesting, over 44%. And that number was larger than all of the other individual responses.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I think the survey asks a good question. Gender balance problems are a huge issue. For people who are serious, I think finding a good teacher is far more difficult than generally acknowledged.

Gender balance not so much of a problem in a large community. Finding a good teacher, however, is not easy. And a good teacher is the right teacher for you at that time.

 

[Bailango]

Thanks for sharing, Numawan. And some results actually puzzled me.

View attachment 4771

Puzzled or surprised? Why? They are right in line with my experience and the reasons I heard from those giving up on Tango after trying for a few years. My personal sample size is small. A dozen to two dozen.

I am not surprised at all. The top two results are too elitist and too cliquish/exclusionary. My first impression when I join this forum was to see these aspects defended under guise of various reasons (which to me sounded like excuses). Also reflected in similar sentiments expressed by tango dancers in real life. No one will outright says or defends that tango should be elitist or exclusive. But that is the perception of Tango. Both within and without. It is based on behavior and sentiments expressed on aspects of Tango that often get defended.

I will be rich if I got a dollar every time I heard from other dancers of tango (community) being snobbish and elitist. It isn’t that other dancers are not interested or mind steeper learning curve. Tango’s ill reputation precedes in other dancers’ minds before they try Tango.

The results following with the highest percentages are variations of same theme manifested differently. They are critical/rude partners, not finding someone to practice with, no one to dance with, divisive politics, and too serious.

There are other social dances with higher drop out rate the longer someone has danced. Salsa community is many times bigger, swing is also big, as are other recently popular social dances like Bachata, Kizomba, and Zouk. Not one of them will have any of the top 6 reasons of Tango for drop out. For example I know many people who stop being active or dropped out of Salsa or swing after five years. None of them due top reasons given for tango in this survey.

Unless I missed the learning curve or difficulty of getting better is not mentioned and is a non-factor. Lifestyle changes that will rank among top 2 or 3 among the non-Tango dancers is at the lower end in the Tango survey.

The reason participation in Tango is challenging is staring right in our faces through this survey. 500 is good sample size.

 

[Bailango]

A methodological remark regarding Clay's survey. This is a voluntary survey. As a consequence, we need to keep in mind that there certainly is a self-selection bias in the sample of respondents.

In particular, 75% of responses come from people who did tango for a year or more, and only 5% of responses come from people who did tango for less than 3 months. However, we know that many people try out tango for a few lessons only and quit almost immediately. That group is certainly underrepresented in this survey.

If that group was properly represented, I suspect that we would get different reasons as reason for leaving tango. My personal guess:
- much more people who realised that they don't like tango music.
- much more people who found the first lessons uninteresting.
- much more people who didn't like the instructors.

I find that to be more meaningful.

High drop out rate in first few months or after a few lessons is common across other partner dances. The reasons are similar too. My reference is not to ballroom but the partnered social dances. Solo dances and other non-dance activities also suffer from beginners dropping out. True for all skill based activites with a learning curve whether it is rock climbing or martial arts or yoga. People constantly try different things.

 

[Rabbit]

There are other social dances with higher drop out rate the longer someone has danced...

Is salsa really that much different in terms of its social problems?

Why do people give up salsa?

Why do people give up salsa for good or at least temporarily? Here are some reasons I came up with: -people who begin a relationship with someone who could not care less about dancing -Boredom. Few places to choose from, and repetition of the same venue over and over again (in small scenes...

www.dance-forums.com

 

[Bailango]

Is salsa really that much different in terms of its social problems?

Why do people give up salsa?

Why do people give up salsa for good or at least temporarily? Here are some reasons I came up with: -people who begin a relationship with someone who could not care less about dancing -Boredom. Few places to choose from, and repetition of the same venue over and over again (in small scenes...

www.dance-forums.com

Yes. Tango is in a class of its own. If Tango is like fine dining, Salsa is like eating out at a hole in wall place. Sensual Bachata is eating Salsa’s lunch. Younger people gravitate to Bachata because they find Salsa hard to learn. Salsa’s growth is slowing down. Sensual Bachata and Bachata are like fast food. Most people don’t quit salsa because the community is perceived as snobbish and unwelcoming.

 

[WhiskeyPapa]

I think the biggest reason is because tango is a difficult dance. One dancer’s “snobbery” is another dancer’s desire to dance with people who put the effort into getting better. Many dancers (both men and women) want a free ride, or just to have fun without putting in the excruciating effort to get halfway decent as a dancer. There is nothing wrong with that! But don’t bitch because the good dancers don’t want to give you a good time at their own expense!

A common complaint from followers is that Leads invite hot young things, blah, blah. I think that point is overstated. Good older dancers have no problem getting dances (as long as they are known in the community). it’s much less about looks than technique, which comes at a steep price in time, money and effort.

 

[Rabbit]

A common complaint from followers is that Leads invite hot young things, blah, blah. I think that point is overstated. Good older dancers have no problem getting dances (as long as they are known in the community).

It's actually a role balance problem and not a tango specific thing. The most skilled, attractive and/or socially connected dancers are always going to get invited a lot no matter the ratio, so if it's too unbalanced the more average dancers will sit out a lot.