Reasons to give up Tango

[WhiskeyPapa]

Absolutely true that the truly good followers always dance, irrespective of the number of Leads and their age (unless they are visiting and no one knows them).

 

[TTanguero]

Absolutely true that the truly good followers always dance, irrespective of the number of Leads and their age (unless they are visiting and no one knows them).

I can only speak for London, and say that this is only partially true. A young and attractive good follower will be in the same position as a middling leader: able to dance as much as she likes. A truly good follower over the age of 50 will probably not. She will dance, yes, but likely not as much as she'd like.

 

[JournalInTime]

I can only speak for London, and say that this is only partially true. A young and attractive good follower will be in the same position as a middling leader: able to dance as much as she likes. A truly good follower over the age of 50 will probably not. She will dance, yes, but likely not as much as she'd like.

Yes, that's how it is here in Montréal, too:

For followers: Dance skill beyond "not terrible" is nearly irrelevant. Good looks, youth, a small dress size, and a high hemline are extremely relevant. The room doesn't lie . . . the majority of seated followers lack some or all of these features, while the majority of those who never sit have some or all of them. A follower needs to be almost professionally good and known to be that good (like a teacher or performer) – or seated with and clearly a friend of someone like that – to sidestep this bias with any certainty.

For leaders: Dance skill beyond "not terrible" is nearly irrelevant. Willingness to invite is extremely relevant. Leaders so outnumber followers, and so many followers stay seated due to the above bias, that leaders who are available to dance are practically leapt upon. (Literally . . . at least twice, a woman has jumped out from behind me, grabbed my shoulders, and told my girlfriend, "If you're sitting this one out, I'll borrow him.") This only falls down for men with extraordinarily bad hygiene or actively dangerous technique.

This is probably where our floorcraft issues come from.

All of the above is "for the most part." There are exceptions, and they tend to cluster at specific events, so a dancer who doesn't tour the city's milongas might disagree. But most of a decade dancing at every milonga would reveal the biases for sure.

 

[Rabbit]

A young and attractive good follower will be in the same position as a middling leader: able to dance as much as she likes.

There are some milongas in London (and Europe) so inbred that even that isn't true.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Leaders so outnumber followers

Surely you mean the reverse!

 

[JournalInTime]

Surely you mean the reverse!

Argh, yes! Thanks.

For leaders: Dance skill beyond "not terrible" is nearly irrelevant. Willingness to invite is extremely relevant. Followers so outnumber leaders, and so many followers stay seated due to the above bias, that leaders who are available to dance are practically leapt upon. (Literally . . . at least twice, a woman has jumped out from behind me, grabbed my shoulders, and told my girlfriend, "If you're sitting this one out, I'll borrow him.") This only falls down for men with extraordinarily bad hygiene or actively dangerous technique.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Good older dancers have no problem getting dances (as long as they are known in the community).

More or less, assume you mean followers based on the rest of the statement. However, these kinds of anecdotal reports are largely dependent on where you dance. They (the "good older dancers") may get dances but maybe not that many. Looks still count for a lot--pretty much everywhere I would assume.

 

[Rabbit]

They (the "good older dancers") may get dances but maybe not that many. Looks still count for a lot--pretty much everywhere I would assume.

There are a few very good and popular older dancers... but I think it is very difficult for a follower to reach such a level where her dancing is generally admired if one starts dance late in life.

 

[TTanguero]

There are a few very good and popular older dancers... but I think it is very difficult for a follower to reach such a level where her dancing is generally admired if one starts dance late in life.

They didn't always start late in life, though. I know quite a few followers who said that the number of invitations they receive declined as they get older, and it's definitely not because their dance skills waned ...

 

[opendoor]

..think it is very difficult for a follower to reach such a level where her dancing is generally admired if one starts dance late in life..

In my dance community, many female dancers switch to tango in their early forties. Without exception, the reason given is the excessive pressure of competition with younger dancers. These newcomers are no longer beginners when they arrive.

 

[Rabbit]

In my dance community, many female dancers switch to tango in their early forties. Without exception, the reason given is the excessive pressure of competition with younger dancers. These newcomers are no longer beginners when they arrive.

That's why I'm sceptical about tango really being any worse or better than other dances in this respect. But doesn't this competition also exist in tango?

 

[JournalInTime]

They didn't always start late in life, though. I know quite a few followers who said that the number of invitations they receive declined as they get older, and it's definitely not because their dance skills waned ...

This is what I was talking about, by the way:

Tangueras who started in their 20s or 30s; acquired a solid 20, 30, even 40 years of experience; and had their invitation rate drop as their age and experience increased. And who spelled that out for me in pretty much those words, just in case I misunderstood. My coach, for instance, started tango in the early 1990s, while in her late 20s, making this her 30th year of experience, in her late 50s . . . and she has repeatedly told me how "didn't sit down all night" became "a few tandas," despite her clear level of ability.

Whereas tangueros mostly shrug and don't notice it. As they age, they just trade off being young and fit for the "silver-haired milonguero" thing, and dance as much as ever. In part because leaders are always in short supply, in part because tango idolizes viejos milongueros.

Obviously, it's a regional thing . . . but it seems to happen in a lot of regions.

 

[JournalInTime]

In my dance community, many female dancers switch to tango in their early forties. Without exception, the reason given is the excessive pressure of competition with younger dancers. These newcomers are no longer beginners when they arrive.

That's interesting because of the "switch to tango" part.

I know from accompanying dozens, probably hundreds of beginners over the years that in my community, tango is typically a first dance style: People come to tango when they first come to dance, and either stick with it and don't learn other styles (I'm like that), or get tired of it and go off to other styles (the usual fate of frustrated followers). But they rarely, rarely come to it after other styles, later in life – when tango DJs here decide to tempt fate and play a few sets of non-tango tunes at big milongas, you see 100+ couples standing around while 5 or 6 couples dance.

 

[Numawan]

Let's be brutally frank for once. You are a good leader and you go to a milonga where you don't know anyone. Really no one. Perhaps in another city or even in another country. You take a quick look at the followers. You don't want to waste time watching them dance before inviting someone. Who do you assume will be the most skilled followers? The young and fit-looking women? Or the older women who aren't looking as fit? My experience is rather the young and fit-looking ones.

 

[opendoor]

...That's interesting because of the "switch to tango" part.

Sorry my fault. I meant salseras switch to tango to avoid the youth cult in their former community.