Rodriguez's 'Bailando todas los ritmos'

..Will listen a few times and make some notes...

Already done, tm: think you captured the essence within these few words above!

@ border: I would emphasize that strong driving rhythm underneath the melody. By the way, I love the original take by Rovira, not the Pugliese version. And in this original version by Rovira this driving rhythm is still much stronger. It is pure walking.

Original by Rovira:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEIJOOAW_Jk
Piazzolla with Pugliese:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEr-G9ocA3c
Pugliese alone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnLO85RCLqQ
 
opendoor; i find the Rovira version interesting, but i dont find the driving rhythms in this version particular strong....nor do i agree that its pure walking..its more akin to Taxi Driver soundtrack, pure cruising with melancholia
 
I re-read Denniston. The rhythm she is describing is the habanera. Milonga was directly influenced by the habanera dance and this rhythmic pattern is very frequently in the bass line. It is also in early tango. And it does not rule out a strong-week-strong-week stress pattern in 2/4. In fact it emphasizes it. The habanera is a rhythmic pattern, not the beat. Its first and third notes though are in fact the strong beats.

It is not the dos por cuatro as she says. That is strong-week-strong-weak in a four count. I have yet to find a contrary description. She is right about the habanera rhythm dying out (or seldom used) by 1920 or so in tango music. Right about that specific version, but there is another, very similar one that we hear in tango very frequently.

I wrote about these rhythmic patterns in the El Choclo thread (and more than once):

First, here’s what habanera 1 looks like:

Habanera.PNG


Habanera 2 is this (there should be a 2/4 time signature here too):

Habanera.jpg


I’ve looked for sound clips of these rhythms but so far haven’t found any.

I’ve explained these rhythms before but they are so important in tango and milonga music I’ll do it again. In hab. 1 the syncopation happens on the second note, it occurs off the beat. In hab. 2 the syncopation happens on the second and third notes, which are played off the beat. The first three notes are most important and often only the first two are played in tango and milonga music.

I’ll ignore the pair of eighth notes on the second beat for now. Hab. 2 is really just a variation of hab. 1. Instead of a longer held note (a dotted eighth) there is a sixteenth note and an eighth note, taking up the same number of sub-beats as the dotted eighth in hab. 1. Here’s why: a dot increases the note value by half. An eighth note gets half a beat in 2/4 and the dot adds another sixteenth. (1/8 + .5 * 1/8 = 1/8 + 1/16 = 3/16). So a dotted eighth will get 3/16 of a beat. The second note in hab. 1 is a sixteenth, making a total of 4/16, or 1 full beat when the two note values are combined. (There are 16 sixteenth notes (16/16) in a bar of 4/4. That is how the fractional values (1/4, 1/8, 1/16…) are determined. So 4 of them (4/16) equals one quarter note, ie, one beat). Hab. 2 has 1/16 + 1/8 + 1/16. Adding these we get 4/16. Again, one full beat. And the last note of the three is a sixteenth (1/16), same with hab. 1.

I’ve explained how to count the habanera rhythms before:
Subdivide each beat into 4, in 2/4: Count quickly 1234, 1234 in your head or out loud. Clap or tap on 1__4, 1_3_. That is hab. 1. Hab. 2: Count quickly 1234, 1234. Clap on 1 2_4, 1_3_. Both these rhythms should sound familiar to you; you have heard them in tango and milonga music very often.
 
I've been wondering, on the topic of 'other rhythms', whether Troilo's Malón de Ausencia is danceable as milonga - is it really a milonga at all - one link I have seen refers to it as malambo.

Whatver you could dance to it, I don't think I'd like to try this, very interesting though it is... (is this malambo?)

I don't know what they are ... a South American folk dance.

These songs are in a triple meter (6/8? 12/8?). Milonga is in a duple meter (2/4, for example).

Not sure what it would mean to dance them as milonga ... perhaps doing "milonga" steps to them. I guess you could. It would not feel like milonga. Would feel more like vals to me. IMO.
 
One other thing...it is not as though tango music stopped being written in 2/4. I have looked at a couple hundred or so tangos (1930-1950) on todotango.com and I'd say it is pretty even (2/4 or 4/8 ), but that may be only a sampling error...

Also from the El Choclo thread:

As far as I know, newly composed tangos during the 30’s-40’s were written in either 2/4 (Nada Mas, D’Arienzo) or 4/8 (Bahia Blanca, Di Sarli). Pugliese in the 40’s and 50’s used 2/4 (Recuerdo, La Beba) or 4/8 (La Yumba). Even Salgan was wrting in 2/4 (A Fuego Lento) and 4/8 (Don Agustin Bardi) in the 60s. Piazzolla, always having to be different, wrote almost always in 4/4. But I can’t think of any newly composed Golden Age tangos (30’s-40’s) written in 4/4. There may be lots, I’m just not aware of them…haven’t seen their printed music.
 
I don't know what they are ... a South American folk dance.

These songs are in a triple meter (6/8? 12/8?). Milonga is in a duple meter (2/4, for example).

Not sure what it would mean to dance them as milonga ... perhaps doing "milonga" steps to them. I guess you could. It would not feel like milonga. Would feel more like vals to me. IMO.

It's an interesting piece. Troilo's recording is one of two mentioned in the discography at http://www.tango.info/?q=Malón+de+Ausencia, it gives the genre of Troilo's version the name aire de malambo, but the other (which I think is the composer's own version) milonga. There is also a picture of the original 78 record label, and that clearly has milonga printed on it too.

I am indeed talking about dancing this as milonga, and while it would certainly be challenging, I hear nothing of vals in it. The triplets in the accompaniment create a very different feel for me.

The basic rhythm of the song sounds as though it is in four (four what is anyone's guess), but the four beats sound as though divided into two threes, followed by three twos (hemiola?), so I agree, a compound metre of some sort.

I haven't found a copy of Rivero's version to compare with Troilo's, but there are several on Spotify, including the one mentioned on http://www.todotango.com/spanish/las_obras/Tema.aspx?id=9hOTke1xwzI= sung by Beatriz Suárez Paz. The guitar accompaniment in that version is more straightforward most of the time, but still suggests a compound metre with an underlying four count.

Has anyone danced to this?
 
it sounds more like a chacerera to me, but I wouldnt chose to dance to it, nor have I ever heard it played at a milonga

Chacerera? Yes, I think you may be right. It certainly has that rhythm. I looked on wikipedia and found
Chacarera choreography
The Chacarera is a Contradance -influenced partner dance with similarities to many Ibero-American folk dances, including the Chilean (Zama)cueca and the Peruvian Marinera (Vega 1944). Male dancers circle about their female partners, seducing them with foot stomping (zapateo) and handkerchief waving during the A sections and “coronating,” or embracing, them in the final B section.

The choreography on the clip I linked to yesterday is a real treat! I'm sure it is authentic in its way, but also easily as funny as seeing Corky Ballas murdering an 8CB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCqiN4m4aFE
The accompaniment of that version plays down the hemiola syncopation, and is of no particular musical interest, but the dancing is something else ... ;)
 
Uh? You had to look in Wiki to know what the Chacarera is?
Hey, just leave the A.T forum and go back to ballroom section.
 
Uh? You had to look in Wiki to know what the Chacarera is?
Hey, just leave the A.T forum and go back to ballroom section.

Chacarera is for Argentine folk-hippies; it has as much in common with AT as clog dancing, and I suspect it attracts a different subsection of society..ie the colourful woolly hand-knitted jumper brigade..mind you that might include a few in Totness
 
You know, I think I might.

No need to do that.

It may be interesting to listen to unusual music and think about how to dance tango/milonga/vals to it. But I would gently and kindly suggest you become thoroughly and intimately familiar with the standard repertoire played at milongas. Anything else is a diversion.
 
Uh? You had to look in Wiki to know what the Chacarera is?
Hey, just leave the A.T forum and go back to ballroom section.

Now that is indeed unkind!

I only saw Chacerera myself a few months ago for the first time
mainly because I couldn't avoid it at the event I was at. It has
no relevance to Tango other than both emanate from Argentina.

Chacarera is an Argentinian folk dance reputedly with an ancestry
traceable back to English Country dance. It has no place that I'm
aware of at Milongas, even in Buenos Aires.

Someone now is bound to find and post an exception which proves
the rule. :mad:
 

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