Should I change instructors dilemma

dancecat said:
I mostly lurk, but this has been bothering me, so throwing myself on the mercy of the collective wisdom here on the board.
I have been doing weekly lessons with my instructor for almost 2 months now. My goals are to compete and to someday teach. I made this clear upfront from the beginning and I have no problems expressing myself.

I feel like the lessons quickly stagnated and that I wasn't learning. We are also supposed to work on my learning to teach, but this was slow in coming. Obviously dancing is not cheap and being on a budget, I have to scrape up the funds. Spending money on 3 lessons doing the same closed routine without any arms or any real feedback is not a good value in my opinion. I have a dance background and learn quickly. I finally said that I was getting bored and I said this without malice, just matter of factly.
His response was that he was "still trying to figure me out" I don't know what that has do with teaching me to dance competitively. I said there was nothing to figure out and that I want to dance and compete. His next response was " Lots of people say they want to compete, but they really don't follow through." I didn't see what that has to do with me either. If you were to meet me, you would see that I am a strong, determined person with a lot of drive.

Well, things have gone downhill since then and my last 2 lessons started out on sour notes. Last week, after laughing and talking with other students, we all stepped away to begin our lessons. I turned to face my instructor and the first thing out of his mouth was " Don't look so thrilled to be here" I just looked surprised and ignored it. What do you say to something so rude? I was having a good time and that just killed it.

Today he wanted to start with Latin walks which is totally different from what we usually do. He knows I have a back problem( which I never should have fessed up to, but he caught me grimacing in pain one day) In correcting my motion he said it was something I do not like to do. Not at all, but I do have trouble doing it, but will work on it.

We did discuss that we seem to have a "disconnect" He says I have a barrier up and that he has a hard time reading me. What?? I just don't get it. This kind of dance world is new to me, so I am not sure what to make of it. I think I just want to drop out of the training program and take lessons from another instructor. How do I accomplish this without a great deal of drama which I loathe?

Sorry for the long post!
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While I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with working on the same closed routine for several weeks/months/years :), the lack of "any real feedback" is a red flag for me. What do you mean by that? You do the routine, and the instructor doesn't tell you what needs more work and what you need to tackle next?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not bored working on basics because my basic technique could use a lot of improvement. (I may be frustrated sometimes, but not bored!) As long as I'm getting information and I feel like the instructor is on my side and trying to help me master the material, I'm happy.
 
dancecat said:
Great points all around! I should point out that I also had a few lessons with another instructor and was "recruited" by my current instructor when I expressed an interest in eventually teaching. I have also had ballroom lessons before, albeit quite some time ago. I do learn very quickly and being self-taught in a number of other things, I believe the ability to learn is a skill that one can develop.

Really, the teaching is secondary. First of all, I want to be able to connect with someone and dance with passion and musicality.
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i can relate to this. i have self-taught expertise in many areas and have been an independent learner my whole life. but fwiw i have found that ballroom dancing is a different animal... it takes a long time to understand & internalize the complexities into one's body, even though in the end each piece feels quite simple.

Now that I think about it, I believe some of my disapproval(perhaps loss of respect) is coming across in the lessons... I would actually like to take some lessons with another instructor in the same studio, but I am afraid there is no good way to make the switch!
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perhaps he's tuning into your disapproval and wondering what's behind it. i think it's a great idea to try another instructor -- you don't even have to make any hard decision yet to drop your existing one.

"i'd like to get some different perspectives and would like to make an appointment with a few other teachers..." that would do it.
 
dancecat said:
I also teach, although my subject involves more eye and hand coordination. I engaged in this activity for several years before teaching, so I know it takes time to develop skills. That may also influence my idea of teaching. I would never say some of the things to my customers that have been said to me. I actually find it unprofessional and would lose business if I acted that way. There have also been some remarks about other instructors and a student that I find inappropriate. Maybe my idea of doing business is harsh in the ballroom world?
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One major difference is that when you use the dance-with-the-teacher approach to ballroom, they personally participate in your dancing a lot more than if they were merely instructing you and occasionally dancing something with you as part of that. It shouldn't be a factor, but in practical terms teachers are human, and can become frustrated or annoyed in a way that might be less likely in a setting where they were not participating in the dancing as the student's partner.

This is also something you'll need to think about if you have career interests. Do you want to spend hours physically dancing with your students, or do you want to mostly instruct and advise. If you want to combine teaching with your own competitive goals, you should also be aware that teaching yourself will make you ineligible to enter pro/am events dancing with your teacher, though you can now teach in some circumstances while competing with an amateur partner, or of course while competing in the professional division.
 
We definitely neeed to remember there are two sides to a story, and it's hard to convey an emotion and a tone of voice over the internet.

That being said, I might think about another instructor, or at least bring up your concerns with him, as you don't seem to have right environment to learn from him right now. But I definitely agree with others that you should just worry aboutl earning first, and teaching later. I'm another person who is mostly self taught in a huge variety of fields of knowledge, but even so, there's a HELL of a lot to leran/master with ballroom.
 
Is your teacher American or European?Could there be cultural misunderstandings? Eastern European teachers who grew up in their system, which was pretty harsh, can be pretty harsh themselves. I don't think they are used to modern American women who talk back. I would suggest showing a lot of respect. Is your teacher a competing professional, or a retired competitor?Is he well established witha national reputation? I guess I am trying to get a feeling for his qualifications and experience. Maybe you could tell us his approxiamte age - nd yours.
 
It sounds like you have some homework to do.:D

First you need to (as best as you can) write down what you want with your dancing. Describe it in as many details as possible. Write down the time frame to get to the level you want to be. Where are you in 1 year, 3 years and 5 years (I know this will change, but this is just to get you a plan for now). If you do not know where you want to go, nobody can help you get to where you want to be!

After you have finished your goals and plan. Write down what you expect from you teacher/coach/mentor. How do you learn the best and how can he/she help you the best? Do you want drills? Do you want homework?What qualities do you want the teacher/coach/mentor to have? What personality do you want you teacher/coach/mentor to have? I am sure you can come up with more questions yourself.

Now you have your list of you goals and your list of what the perfect teacher/coach/mentor is like. Take a piece of paper and divide it into two parts. On the left side write all the things that you like about your current teacher and on the right side write all the things that you don't like. Go through the paper and see which side come across the most dominant. If the side of positive things comes across then you need to take your concerns to the teacher and talk about them. If the negative side comes across the strongest, then you need to look for a new teacher. If you decide to change to a new teacher/coach/mentor, go through your list of what you want in a teacher/coach/mentor and make sure you get as many things on the list as possible. Before you start with a new teacher/coach/mentor ask for a talk about your goals and expectations. Get on the same page (so to speak) before you start. I very often do a trail period with new students to see if we will work together well. I normally do a trail period of one month if it is a regular student (one that I will see every week).

I hope this will help you. Remember you have to choose what you want with your life, money and time. All the best.
 
I agree that ballroom is different. There is a LOT to learn and a lot to put together. I don't think he is giving me a reality check, I think he is putting me down. I am a confident person and some people are intimidated by that, but I have been through a lot and know what I am capable of. To his credit, he has admitted that I can learn much faster than the average(emphasis on average here) student. I am no superstar, but I do have ability.

To answer Chris, I am always on the look out for an amateur partner. I have a profile on dancepartner and I am making the rounds to other venues in the metro area in search of one. I understand the Pro/Am issues and I don't want to go there unless I have to which nixes the future possibility of teaching.

To answer Gingerbread, my instructor is American and recently turned pro, but is not highly ranked. I do think there is an issue with my questioning his methods, but it is MY money and my time. I drive an hour each way to my lessons and I want to make the most of my time and do not want to hear gossip and the like. I don't think he has a lot of students because I have only met one or 2 others. He is only a few years younger than I , so that shouldn't be an issue.
Yes, there are 2 sides to every story and I am certainly not perfect. I am very very serious about this and want someone that cares about developing my dancing. I think he is put out because I questioned what we are doing. I don't mind doing drills and basics. I practice almost every night at home, exercise my feet and ankles, do stretches and strength train 2- 3 times a week. Yes, I need to do more and an instructor that takes me seriously should help me develop a plan with short and long range goals. At this point I feel I have very little idea of why we are doing what we are doing and where we are going with it.

I will never be a high level competitor because of my age. There simply isn't enough time, but I want to do the best I can do while I can do it. Being over 40, I realize I am limited, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't expect a lot of myself.

Now having said all that, I have had it on very good authority today that I should not rock the boat at my studio if I want to stay there. I made a very stupid mistake in not taking lessons with different instructors from the very beginning. At this point, I think I will make another effort to clear the air and hope for the best. I should have an update in a couple of days.
You all have given me a lot to think about. Every activity or hobby has a world of its own and navigating it when you are new to it can be tricky. What did we ever do before the Internet?:confused:
 
okay look...to be a pro starting over 40 is not a minor goal...and to compete over 40 is also serious business...I am curious as to why you didn't pick a pro who had been established longer to begin with...and frankly given your age, which is near to my own...I would strongly urge that you pick one goal or another... competing or teaching...as I think it unlikely to do both well at 40 or older as a newcomer...it is a great thing that you have confidence but as someone who hasn't yet competed, I find your perspective to be kind of niave...and I mean you no disrespect...good luck ...
 
I agree that ballroom is different. There is a LOT to learn and a lot to put together. I don't think he is giving me a reality check, I think he is putting me down. I am a confident person and some people are intimidated by that, but I have been through a lot and know what I am capable of. To his credit, he has admitted that I can learn much faster than the average(emphasis on average here) student. I am no superstar, but I do have ability.

To answer Chris, I am always on the look out for an amateur partner. I have a profile on dancepartner and I am making the rounds to other venues in the metro area in search of one. I understand the Pro/Am issues and I don't want to go there unless I have to which nixes the future possibility of teaching.

To answer Gingerbread, my instructor is American and recently turned pro, but is not highly ranked. I do think there is an issue with my questioning his methods, but it is MY money and my time. I drive an hour each way to my lessons and I want to make the most of my time and do not want to hear gossip and the like. I don't think he has a lot of students because I have only met one or 2 others. He is only a few years younger than I , so that shouldn't be an issue.
Yes, there are 2 sides to every story and I am certainly not perfect. I am very very serious about this and want someone that cares about developing my dancing. I think he is put out because I questioned what we are doing. I don't mind doing drills and basics. I practice almost every night at home, exercise my feet and ankles, do stretches and strength train 2- 3 times a week. Yes, I need to do more and an instructor that takes me seriously should help me develop a plan with short and long range goals. At this point I feel I have very little idea of why we are doing what we are doing and where we are going with it.

I will never be a high level competitor because of my age. There simply isn't enough time, but I want to do the best I can do while I can do it. Being over 40, I realize I am limited, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't expect a lot of myself.

Now having said all that, I have had it on very good authority today that I should not rock the boat at my studio if I want to stay there. I made a very stupid mistake in not taking lessons with different instructors from the very beginning. At this point, I think I will make another effort to clear the air and hope for the best. I should have an update in a couple of days.
You all have given me a lot to think about. Every activity or hobby has a world of its own and navigating it when you are new to it can be tricky. What did we ever do before the Internet?
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You can’t possibly know what you really want in your dancing after two months. It’s as simple as that.

I came into dancing a few years ago keen as all hell too. It was only in the last few months I decided that yes, it really is what I want to do, and everybody at the studio noticed a marked change in my attitude towards dancing following that resolution. Again, I was a keen dancer beforehand, I would drive 2 hours to lessons, I’d practice for hour upon hour. It’s not the same thing.

I can’t speak for the quality of your teacher. He sound good, in that he works on basics, and limits what you’re doing in routines. Assuming he focuses on technique, rather than mere repetition, that’s the kind of teacher you want. If not, look elsewhere.

Age has nothing to do with it. In three years a couple over 50 went from absolute beginner to top 3 Masters 2 (50+ age category) competitors that compete in Masters 1 (35+ age category) in the smaller comps. And win. It’s not Open Amateur or Professional competition, but it’s very serious and very high standard dancing nonetheless.


But here’s the main thing I’m getting from this thread so far, and it explains your coaches’ behaviour to me:

Making a complaint about an injury, or letting an injury affect your dancing is going to trigger alarm bells in any coach’s head. If you’re serious about competition you simply cannot let any injuries you might have show. You say you’re serious but if you’re inhibited a coach is going to be concerned about this.

Your attitude towards the basics and “being stuck doing the same basic routine” is going to make him wonder how committed you are about teaching. That and, after 2 months, no one is going to be able to take aspirations to be a teacher as any more than aspirations. Most aspiring teachers do change their mind.


So that’s it in a nutshell. Just going on what I’ve seen in this thread, there’s a communication issue between you and your teacher, but as a coach I don’t see any reason to believe he isn’t a quality coach.
 
BasicsFirst said:
I'd say there's an awful lot of "over analysis" here. Bottom line... you're NOT happy... I don't see any dilemma. Move ON.
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That's a simplification. There’s been times I’ve been deeply unhappy with everything from my teacher, to my partner, to dancing itself. Knowing when to quit is more important that quitting just because things aren’t perfect at that moment.
 
I think you have some homework to do.:D

You need to take a serious look at what you want with you dancing. Why are you dancing? What do you want to use it for and/or get out of it? How much time and money are you willing to put into this venture (blood, sweat and tears)? With all this in mind write down you goals and a rough plan (this plan will change as you improve and time goes on). Where do you want to be in 1 year, 3 years and 5 years from now? If you don't now where you are going, nobody can help you get there.

Now that you have goals and a plan is written down, you need to look at who is going to help you get there. Write down what you expect the teacher/coach/mentor to do for you. How do you learn the best? Look at how you have learned in the past and how fast you have learned something, this should give you a clue on your learning style. What personality do you work the best with? Do you want homework? Do you want drills? What qualities do you want the teacher/coach/mentor to have? I am sure you can come up with other questions.

Now take a piece of paper an split the paper into two parts with a line on the length of the paper. On the left side write down all the things you like about your current teacher and on the right side write down all the things you don't like about your teacher. Read the paper through many time and see which side is more dominant. If the left side is more dominate, you need to sit down with you teacher and have him help you set up a plan. A plan that works for both of you and your are both happy with. If the right side is more dominant, you should look for a new teacher/coach/mentor.

If you decide to find a new teacher, you need to ask for a little talk before you start and commit to lessons. You need to tell the teacher about your goals and plan (he might want to change it to what he sees as being realistic, so be open for change). Ask for references from other students. I normally put new students on a trail period of one month. This is for students that want me as their main coach and that I will be seeing on a weekly basis. This trail period is really for both of us. After one month we can either start working together on a committed level or we can part as friends. As we both know it is a trail period there is no anger or resentment, if it doesn't work out. Both of us have the freedom to call it quits.

Remember you have to make the choice. It is your life, your time and your money. You do have to be realistic and you might need some help on what is realistic.
 
WaltzElf said:
Making a complaint about an injury, or letting an injury affect your dancing is going to trigger alarm bells in any coach’s head. If you’re serious about competition you simply cannot let any injuries you might have show. You say you’re serious but if you’re inhibited a coach is going to be concerned about this.
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I don't agree with this. But it does depend on how you handle it. I seriously messed up one of my ankles a number of years ago. Many days it's fine, some days it's workable, but there are a few days when it is useless. My teachers know about this and will work with me on it: but when it's really really trouble we'll work on something else that doesn't aggravate it. However, I do try my best and when it's just not working I'll just state that I'm having a really bad day with it and ask that we move on to something else (I'll often suggest what to do). Also, I've always made it work in competition, and the one time it was bad (I felt like my foot was going to fall off) I didn't say anything until after the comp was over because I didn't want to change how my teacher danced with me.

Your attitude towards the basics and “being stuck doing the same basic routine” is going to make him wonder how committed you are about teaching.
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Or to learning. I've been dancing and competing in ballroom for a long time and I still work on the fundamental basics. Step by step, weight transfer by weight transfer, how to hold my body. I've had the same competitive routines for two years now. I don't feel stuck, because there is so much to learn and refine and do and improve -- there is alway something. So I definitely agree with WaltzElf on this point.
 
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