Social Dancing - People Who Ignore You at the Start

[jennyisdancing]

I don't think it's like that at all. I think the point was that given an option of dancing with a newbie versus dancing with someone at a similar level, the "advanced" dancers would choose to dance with those of a similar level because it's more fun. And that in such a case, it's simply a matter of personal enjoyment and not deliberate snobbery or avoidance of newbies.

Certainly true...but no matter how benign the reason, the end result is still the same, which is that some newbies have trouble getting dances.

In answer to these questions from lorenzof:

1) Do beginners have a place at social dances?

Of course, why wouldn't they?

2) Would an obligation to dance one dance in ten with a beginner be enough to keep you from going to a particular social dance?

No, I already dance that many dances with beginners, and maybe more than one in ten. The look of happiness and appreciation on their faces is so worth it. I am not going to repeat the rudeness of those who snubbed me when I was a beginner.

 

[lorenzof]

I intentionally phrased my second question in a way to draw a clear line. To go back to the OP, I have seen men who clearly thought fairly highly of their own dancing, clearly were looking for a partner for the next dance, and clearly look past ladies that were either not good enough or not attractive enough to dance with them, and sit out the dance rather than dance with them. That is their right, but I don't find their character anything to admire.

 

[jennyisdancing]

I intentionally phrased my second question in a way to draw a clear line. To go back to the OP, I have seen men who clearly thought fairly highly of their own dancing, clearly were looking for a partner for the next dance, and clearly look past ladies that were either not good enough or not attractive enough to dance with them, and sit out the dance rather than dance with them. That is their right, but I don't find their character anything to admire.

Oh, yes...I see many of those guys. Was just at a big event where there was a surplus of ladies, all eager to dance. And certain men looked them over, deemed them apparently not worthy, and kept scanning the room for someone better.

 

[wonderwoman]

Same guys who get you in a mixer and don't even smile or introduce themselves.
Creeptastic.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I'm trying to understand some of the statements I'm reading from those of the opinion that "advanced" dancers should feel no guilt about avoiding newbie cooties.

I don't think the dividing line that drives this is actually beginner vs. experienced, but instead profound differences in individual approach towards dancing. Many beginners start out or within a few weeks end up in the same fundamentally compatible focused-effort category as the advanced dancers (and probably most df members), many others may choose to spend their entire dance lives in the other group.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I'm trying to understand some of the statements I'm reading from those of the opinion that "advanced" dancers should feel no guilt about avoiding newbie cooties.

1) Do beginners have a place at social dances?

2) Would an obligation to dance one dance in ten with a beginner be enough to keep you from going to a particular social dance?

These are of course purely hypothetical questions. If someone is willing to answer yes to the second, I'm prepared to just let it go, because I can't bridge that gap.

1. Yes, definitely.
2. Personally -- I like dancing with beginners, and I like that people danced with me when I was a beginner. And, I think that folks should spend some time dancing with people less experienced than themselves (how could things work, otherwise?).

It usually works around here. Beginners dance with beginners, intermediates with intermediates, advanced with advanced.

But if there were an actual obligatory number set down somewhere, I'd probably balk.

I enjoy encouraging beginners and spent about half of the last social dancing with them, both male and female. But that is a choice. And if the ability to make that choice were taken away, I would exercise my remaining choice and go to a different social. I wouldn't think any less of others who exercise their choice (politely) not to dance with beginners.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I really like what Rugby said on another thread.

I can see everyone's point of view. I am going to play the devil's advocate here though.

When I first started dancing I did not ask the higher level people as I considered this rude to do so. I knew that I brought nothing to the table for them to warrant asking them to dance (but possibly the chance of hurting them by accident due to my lack of ability) compared to what they were bringing to the table for me. Lets face it, why would you ask someone much higher in abliliy to dance? Possibly for your own benefit, not theirs, so are you really the one being selfish? If they asked me then fine, they took their chances. If I asked them I forced them to feel bad if they turned me down or dance with me as a mercy dance to not hurt my feelings. Unless asked I kept with people of my own ability or lower. I worked on my dancing so that I would be worthy of higher level people dancing with me as I would bring something back to the table for them.


Someone said you know what you are going to get at socials, mainly novice dancers. Does this mean you should not go if you are at at a higher level to social dances. I think higher level people know this but it does not mean that there are not other higher level people there too. The pickings might be slim but thats the chance you take and socials are for everyone, not just newbies. I like to go to dances as much to socialize as to dance.

I am a Pre-Champ competition dancer now but I still ask newbies to dance. Just because I do it does not mean I expect others to do so also. If I do then I take my chances on what happens. One guy that I did not want to dance with asked me to dance and I did not want to turn him down and make him feel bad. He wanted to dance with me as he "wanted to take a high level dancer for a spin to see what he could do". Needless to say he wasn't thinking of me in the equation. We did a salsa and when I went behind him he abruptly threw me into a backwards dip that went across and over his back and in front of him, almost to the floor, tearing the muscles through my shoulder and back. A year of back pain and migraines later and he has forgotten the dance but I still can't turn my head to the right all the way. I will not dance with him again. So thats what he brought to the table for me and in return I had not wanted to make him feel bad by saying no. Also my partner is effected if I am out with a bad back or separated shoulder.

Perhaps this is what D-spot means. The above man was selfish as he knew that he had nothing to offer but wanted to take from me for his own pleasure. He had no interest in getting better in his dancing but rather took pleasure from someone else's skill. Oddly enough down the road he decided to take lessons He was commenting to me that dancing with the novice people wasn't fun as all they did was lean on him and give him a sore arm and back. I almost said "Like mine" but didn't.

In return if a higher level dancer wants to push the envelope then they also must not feel bad if they get turned down. This isn't for everyone as many people go to a dance just to enjoy the company of other people that love dancing. They should not be expected to have to do more if they cannot or are not interested in doing so. The higher level dancer cannot think that he is going to take a novice dancer out so he can see what he can do with them. Its just as rude as he / she is only thinking of themselves and not the other person. For the novice person this just becomes a survival dance.

We must respect each other. Just as the higher level dancer must respect the novice and, if they ask them to dance, accomodate their level to the novice's or don't ask at all, the novice dancer must respect the higher level dancer and expect that they too have to up their game for the higher level dancer or don't ask them to dance at all. Or, we can meet each other half way.

 

[ireniecat]

:applause:

 

[Ray Sison]

2

:applause:

2

 

[Joe]

the end result is still the same, which is that some newbies have trouble getting dances.

If there is a relative balance of leader and follower n00bs, shouldn't be the case at all.

Of course, some people will have trouble getting dances at all, no matter the balance, no matter their skill level.

 

[samina]

Same guys who get you in a mixer and don't even smile or introduce themselves.
Creeptastic.

what do you do in those instances?

 

[wonderwoman]

I don't know. Nothing. Smile and be polite. I'm usually too shy to say anything beyond hi, especially when I'm not even getting any eye contact/acknowledgment that I'm there.

but I'm sure I'd been handling the situation the wrong way...........

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I don't think the dividing line that drives this is actually beginner vs. experienced, but instead profound differences in individual approach towards dancing. Many beginners start out or within a few weeks end up in the same fundamentally compatible focused-effort category as the advanced dancers (and probably most df members), many others may choose to spend their entire dance lives in the other group.

I've seen a lot of experienced people asking less (often considerably so)skilled dancers - not because of where they are, but because of where they are going.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Same guys who get you in a mixer and don't even smile or introduce themselves.
Creeptastic.

I've experienced that from a lot of ladies, too. Sometimes, a mixer can get a sort of processing plant feeling. :shrug: I just smile and contribute what I can to making it a good dance. If they don't respond, it's only a minute.

 

[danceronice]

I've experienced that from a lot of ladies, too. Sometimes, a mixer can get a sort of processing plant feeling. :shrug: I just smile and contribute what I can to making it a good dance. If they don't respond, it's only a minute.

I always feel kind of awkward if there are introductions (partially because I'm somewhat hard of hearing and on the dance floor I probably can't hear you clearly anyway!) and would be inclined to just smile and say hello and not try to do too much conversing.