Facts. I'm rarely accused of not thinking through things.
Social Dancing: Thoughts, Experiences, Stories, Advice
- Thread starter ProgressNotPerfection
- Start date
Nah, keep the dry sarcasm coming.To be fair, I am new and do tend to ask some basic questions, and my participation in conversations demonstrate a beginner level of learning.
I will be more mindful in how I write or phrase things to be more clear when I'm joking vs serious. I also noticed that didn't use as many emojiis, which is uncharacteristic of me- so it may have been harder to discern my intentions.
But, overall I am truly grateful that my remarks were met with thoughtful replies from your personal experiences. It really does tell me you care about me and my journey being a good experience.
You are usually pretty nice on this forum, that's why not everyone caught your dry humor. Trust me, it was not lost on me b/c that is my preferred style, both reading and writing.
Went to a social yesterday evening, one of the monthly ones I and a couple dance friends regularly attend. There's ballroom, but also a lot of WCS, 2-step, NC2 - after a couple hours the ballroom practically disppears.
There was a man there last night, first time I recall seeing him, wearing a black t-shirt with white lettering that said:
Person
Man
Woman
Child
Ep***** (spelled out, I'm not going to do that here)
Frankly I found that in very poor taste in this particular environment.
There was a man there last night, first time I recall seeing him, wearing a black t-shirt with white lettering that said:
Person
Man
Woman
Child
Ep***** (spelled out, I'm not going to do that here)
Frankly I found that in very poor taste in this particular environment.
Arun Garg
Well-Known Member
Oof, *cringe*. This is so funny though
ProgressNotPerfection
Forum Master
me too!
But based on the number of asterisks @IndyLady used, it could be lots of words... such as epigram or epaulet or epithet or epitaph, none of which make any sense in this context
someone pls explain
ProgressNotPerfection
Forum Master
neveragain
Well-Known Member
Mansplainer social dance horror story
I recently attended a social dance party just bcs a friend (who loves general dancing) of mine wanted to go despite my busy schedule lately. At the party there was a lead—strictly a social dancer who asked me to dance bachata. He started with a sweetheart lead and then tried to initiate a swivel. I didn't catch it immediately; by the time I realized what he wanted, instead of adjusting or maybe trying to repeat it, he said, “I can't believe you still don't know how to swivel!”
Appalled, I blurted out, “You're not leading it well! That’s why!”
Annoyed, I stepped in to show him how it’s supposed to be led. Honestly, I was bluffing a bit since I don't frequent bachata socials nor leading. Maybe face to face in double hand hold and move the follower side by side. But the way he led? It felt off. He just went quiet while I "corrected" him, likely stunned by how quickly I shut down his rude comment (hopefully!).
Later, the conversation turned even weirder. He claimed he knew followers who compete but still couldn't follow him because they “have no brains.” I quickly quipped, “Those dancers don't do well at competitions. Good competitors are like professionals.”
He then asked “you just memorize same routine for 5-6 years? “. I said, “No! There's bronze, silver and gold patterns”. Not a good explanation but it was the best short thing I can just shut down this person. To anyone who hasn't competed: please don’t fall for this false generalization that dancesport is just memorizing one routine for years or that we can't lead and follow. It couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, your routines evolve and your technique progresses constantly. These skills don't happen overnight; they are the result of disciplined and technical growth.
Surprisingly, after I "taught" him his fake swivel, he asked me to dance again. This time, he attempted a side lunge. I didn't pick up the timing perfectly bcs his prep was lacking, so I told him, “You need to bend more!”. He did it the second time. As I hit the lunge, I said, “There you go!” and popped back up immediately. I wasn’t about to linger in a lean with this mansplainer. He then started counting out loud, signaling that I should have stayed down longer.
Toward the end of the night, I saw him chatting with my friend. He started the “competitors have no brains” rant all over again. My friend just smiled politely while I sat there in silence. I figured if he directed that comment at me one more time, I might actually smack him in the head.
This is exactly why I love doing pro-am competitions. They give me the objective validation I need so I don't have to let these "delulu" dancers get under my skin.
I recently attended a social dance party just bcs a friend (who loves general dancing) of mine wanted to go despite my busy schedule lately. At the party there was a lead—strictly a social dancer who asked me to dance bachata. He started with a sweetheart lead and then tried to initiate a swivel. I didn't catch it immediately; by the time I realized what he wanted, instead of adjusting or maybe trying to repeat it, he said, “I can't believe you still don't know how to swivel!”
Appalled, I blurted out, “You're not leading it well! That’s why!”
Annoyed, I stepped in to show him how it’s supposed to be led. Honestly, I was bluffing a bit since I don't frequent bachata socials nor leading. Maybe face to face in double hand hold and move the follower side by side. But the way he led? It felt off. He just went quiet while I "corrected" him, likely stunned by how quickly I shut down his rude comment (hopefully!).
Later, the conversation turned even weirder. He claimed he knew followers who compete but still couldn't follow him because they “have no brains.” I quickly quipped, “Those dancers don't do well at competitions. Good competitors are like professionals.”
He then asked “you just memorize same routine for 5-6 years? “. I said, “No! There's bronze, silver and gold patterns”. Not a good explanation but it was the best short thing I can just shut down this person. To anyone who hasn't competed: please don’t fall for this false generalization that dancesport is just memorizing one routine for years or that we can't lead and follow. It couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, your routines evolve and your technique progresses constantly. These skills don't happen overnight; they are the result of disciplined and technical growth.
Surprisingly, after I "taught" him his fake swivel, he asked me to dance again. This time, he attempted a side lunge. I didn't pick up the timing perfectly bcs his prep was lacking, so I told him, “You need to bend more!”. He did it the second time. As I hit the lunge, I said, “There you go!” and popped back up immediately. I wasn’t about to linger in a lean with this mansplainer. He then started counting out loud, signaling that I should have stayed down longer.
Toward the end of the night, I saw him chatting with my friend. He started the “competitors have no brains” rant all over again. My friend just smiled politely while I sat there in silence. I figured if he directed that comment at me one more time, I might actually smack him in the head.
This is exactly why I love doing pro-am competitions. They give me the objective validation I need so I don't have to let these "delulu" dancers get under my skin.
Joe
Forum Master
LOL I'm reminded of a story I haven't thought about in years. I was a n00b and my friend J was only a few months more experienced than me. We'd gone to a social dance with a bunch of other people from our college ballroom club. J asked a guy to dance a waltz, and she'd assumed he was a n00b too, so she was trying to explain a natural turn to him before they'd started dancing. Anyway, he takes off into a proper natural turn—movement, sway, everything—dragging J along with him.
Turns out he was actually one of the top two Amateur Championship Standard competitors in the country.
Turns out he was actually one of the top two Amateur Championship Standard competitors in the country.
ProgressNotPerfection
Forum Master
I attended our studio’s social dance last night…my first foray back into the land of social dancing in so long I don’t even remember the last time, but probably it was the Christmas party over a year ago. I really tried to enjoy it. No reason I shouldn’t have enjoyed it. Lots of people greeted me like a long-lost friend; lots of hugs and compliments and congratulations on the new granddaughter; lots of laughing with ECS Guy during the one dance I had with him (a salsa/mambo, & I expected him to start on 1 but he surprised me [pleasantly] by starting on 2); several dances with teachers (I like that because I find it less threatening to dance with teachers rather than other students); and even though the music was as loud as ever, it didn’t bother me as much as it used to.
So…does that mean I enjoyed it? Idk. Depends how you define “enjoy,” I guess. I left early, before the mixer dances, before the halftime announcements, before I started feeling claustrophobic. I’m not sorry I went, but I’m not sure WHY I went, or what I hoped to get from it. I know that sometimes (especially when I’m tired) I can have somewhat of a Resting B*tch Face, so I made a conscious effort to avoid that and look pleasant, and to talk animatedly with people, and to NOT hide in the corner looking down at my phone.
But I was relieved to get into my car where it was dark and quiet and peaceful, and drive home by myself. I think maybe I’m too introverted to genuinely enjoy large social events, even when they’re focused around one of my favorite activities.*
* Comps are different, because even when they’re large/heavily attended, they don’t feel like “social events” to me, though I know that many - perhaps most? - people feel otherwise! So I do enjoy competing, because I’m there for a specific purpose with specific goals, and I only have to touch and be touched by one dance partner, whom I already trust. Perfect!
So…does that mean I enjoyed it? Idk. Depends how you define “enjoy,” I guess. I left early, before the mixer dances, before the halftime announcements, before I started feeling claustrophobic. I’m not sorry I went, but I’m not sure WHY I went, or what I hoped to get from it. I know that sometimes (especially when I’m tired) I can have somewhat of a Resting B*tch Face, so I made a conscious effort to avoid that and look pleasant, and to talk animatedly with people, and to NOT hide in the corner looking down at my phone.
But I was relieved to get into my car where it was dark and quiet and peaceful, and drive home by myself. I think maybe I’m too introverted to genuinely enjoy large social events, even when they’re focused around one of my favorite activities.*
* Comps are different, because even when they’re large/heavily attended, they don’t feel like “social events” to me, though I know that many - perhaps most? - people feel otherwise! So I do enjoy competing, because I’m there for a specific purpose with specific goals, and I only have to touch and be touched by one dance partner, whom I already trust. Perfect!
He was actually right, just most likely in a wrong way
Dancing is indeed a matter of what we usually call "muscle memory" which is unconscious part of our brain. A dancer doesn't need high IQ to be at top level. On the other side, high "understanding" of dancing isn't any guarantee of good dancing ...
Social last night. Larger crowd than usual, and some completely new people, always a pleasure. We have so many people now who want "street" dances that I'm cutting down on the more traditional Ballroom/Latin ones in my playlists. I do a new playlist for every social, and have to rearrange and add/subtract every time.
I play about 50 songs in a night. Nowadays, fewer Foxtrots, more Bachata, less Waltz, more Hustle, only one Quickstep, several WCS, one VW, faster Salsas, yada yada. No more Samba. Oddly, Bolero is a big hit, likely because Rumba is popular, and dancers of a certain age can manage that extremely slow speed. Are they doing Bolero with rise and fall etc? Nope. Do I care? Nope.
Happy people, dancing. Win!
I play about 50 songs in a night. Nowadays, fewer Foxtrots, more Bachata, less Waltz, more Hustle, only one Quickstep, several WCS, one VW, faster Salsas, yada yada. No more Samba. Oddly, Bolero is a big hit, likely because Rumba is popular, and dancers of a certain age can manage that extremely slow speed. Are they doing Bolero with rise and fall etc? Nope. Do I care? Nope.
Happy people, dancing. Win!
Does he think not competing means you have brains.
Both competitors and non-competitors do can do things wrong. Some non competitors have little motivation to fix their technique. You can't "think" your way out of it if you never spend time learning how to do it.
The objective validation is why competitors often have motivation to fix things. An amazing number of leads think the reason follows don't follow is the follow doesn't know how to do something. And of course, that can be the case. Poor follows exist. But you know, it's hard to move to the left when the actual lead pushes you to the right for whatever reason.This is exactly why I love doing pro-am competitions. They give me the objective validation I need so I don't have to let these "delulu" dancers get under my skin.
Of course, the advantage a lead has when presented with a poor follow is he can elect to not lead the things she failed to follow. Follows stuck with bad leads often discover he'll keep leading it over and over hoping you'll get it next time. I've had leads try things over and over until the song ends. Some actually says the were taught to try it three times.
Sorry buddy, but it doesn't matter whose fault it is. If I couldn't follow it the first time, and I probably won't the 2nd time. So... best not to lead it again. If I don't follow it the second time, I almost certainly won't the third time. Sorry.. maybe your teacher wants you to try it three times with her. But on the social floor, that often means we spend 50% of the time doing stuff that is wildly uncomfortable for the follow and just makes her feel like a hot mess. Avoid doing it twice-- try some other more beginner steps. Then try some other more advanced step-- but not the one she failed to follow.
Maybe, if it turns out she can do all the other things, try the one that failed before. Maybe.
And guess what? If you see she can do these more advanced steps with someone else, there is a pretty good chance you aren't leading it right. STOP TRYING!! You are just torturing follows.
This leading - following stuff is actually quite complex, especially in social dancing environment, where leaders need to adjust their leading to followers of all sizes, shapes and ages, even if their skills were similar, which are not ... so one leader may be able to give almost perfect lead to one follower and totally fail with other, and for other leader it may be exactly the opposite with the same two followers
Additional problem is that things may change a lot during the same event. For instance, on last salsa party, I danced with one follower and it was great. Danced again with her an hour later, and it felt terrible at the beginning - torture by other leaders made her very stiff, so I needed a whole song to relax her so that we enjoyed next songs like first time that evening (happens with all followers to an extent, but some are more prone to that than others). Etc ...
With one follower long ago it was exactly the opposite, her movement was always a kind of restricted and after running out of ideas what to do I tried the opposite, using quite demanding moves she never danced until she actually stopped thinking and resisting and went with the flow, dancing way better than ever before (and after) ...
Sometimes you are just more compatible with particular follower than with other followers for no logical reasons
So things are not black and white, there are many colors and even shades of gray ... so any kind of objective validation in dancing isn't perfectly objective either ....
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