Some possibly confusing tango terms

[LoveTango]

One can see many definitions of "axis" if checking the dictionary. I think, in Tango, the following definition makes most sense: Axis is a line around which an object rotates.

I think, if we follow this definition, saying "have axis" or "on axis" would be meaningless, because as long as the dance motion involves rotation, the axis exists. However, during the dance the axis, this invisible line is not at a fixed location (relative to the partners).

For example, when executing a molinete with the leader balancing on a single foot and pivoting while the follower moves around the leader, this axis goes though the point under the leader's working foot. Often, the molinete is not a simple rotating around the leader, it also involves translation,that is to say, the couple "drifted" away. Then this axis is moved away from the leader's single foot to somewhere between the two persons, but closer to the leader.

A different example would be when the follower is pivoting during an ocho. At the moment of pivoting, the axis is through the follower's working foot.

The shifting of axis is obvious during a volcada execution, particularly if the volcada is immediately after pivoting around the follower. To begin, the leader "erect" the follower up after her weight has been completely transferred to one foot - the working foot for pivoting. The leader moves around the follower while the follower pivots. At this time, the axis is through a point under the follower's working foot. To start the volcada, the leader moves away from the follower, thus pulling the axis away from the follower towards a point between the partners.

I think a good dancer can subconsciously sense where the axis is during the dance and knows how to keep this axis perpendicular to the floor (thus to stay balanced). Both partners can contribute to this effect.

- my two cents.

 

[opendoor]

The way of tango

.... Finally, I sometimes hear ..that tango is not just a dance but a "way of life" ..

That is true and my deep believe, too. It means, .. oh dear, this comes out to be difficult... mmh... (So only some lose associations, but actually no definition)

-integration of musicality, moving, stepping, standing, hearing, looking, feeling, tasting, smelling,
-interculturality, and belonging to a worldwide family,
-(and at the same time) feeling as an emigrant,
-role models, and codigos,
-room for self actualization and straightening,
-narcissism,
-educated and literate people,
-a balance of melancholia (Tango), carnaval (Milonga) and buoyancy (Vals),
-a woman for your whole life, that isn´t jealous, if you have another girl for a while, because she knows for sure, that in the end you will return into her arms again.

 

[gyb]

I was also always confused by the meaning of axis. If axis refers to the imaginary line through head, torso and abdomen to the weight-bearinng leg and foot, how one should understand the claim that in apilado the couple shares a "common axis"?

 

[bordertangoman]

Perfect place to post this link
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/centerofmass.shtml
where someone actually provides data on where the center of gravity is for a human body.

I found that after looking around after looking at this
View
Abstract
The Evolution Of Speed In Athletics: Why The Fastest Runners Are Black And Swimmers White
ADRIAN BEJAN, EDWARD C. JONES & JORDAN D. CHARLES

In this article they repeatedly state that the belly button is the center of gravity. I wonder why the reviewers didn't make them supply a reference for this. Maybe it's in there among all of the other references they cite, but it's not very obvious.

OK. Who will be the first to do the calculations for men vs women, and whether or not is does in fact correspond to belly buttons of both men and women?

I wonder if this corresponds (or fails to) with the dan tien Definition: Chinese Origin - The tan tien is a power center located approximately two and one half inches below the naval.

well the centre of gravity must be internal; so it must be some where between the navel and the spine

 

[Steve Pastor]

New member abejan sent the following to me in a PM.

The words "belly button" do not appear anywhere in the original, peer reviewed article published by Bejan, Jones and Charles. The article is available at www.constructal.org, see the 8th box down.

The "belly button" expression was created by a reporter who wrote about Bejan-Jones-Charles discovery. This expression became popular in the media.

Sure enough, I searched the pdf of the article for "belly" and "navel", and neither term is in the article itself.

I'm not sure where I found the pdf, but it was on the first page of a google search.

Steve

 

[Steve Pastor]

how one should understand the claim that in apilado the couple shares a "common axis"?

It helps to think of the two joined bodies as one "object", rather than as two separate "objects" or people.

 

[Peaches]

I was also always confused by the meaning of axis. If axis refers to the imaginary line through head, torso and abdomen to the weight-bearinng leg and foot, how one should understand the claim that in apilado the couple shares a "common axis"?

Because there are multiple meanings, depending on what you're talking about.

Yes, there is the axis that runs through the body. This is the axis that people talk about when you're "dancing on your own axis."

But you can share weight (despite what some others on this forum would have you believe), or share a "common axis" in apilado. Which is to say, when you're dancing in a style where, if the other person was not there counterbalancing/propping you up, you would fall on your nose. In that case, "axis" is that imaginary plumb line between the two of you, where your bodies are counterbalancing each other. It takes two of you to create that axis around which you both work/dance...hence a shared axis.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I was also always confused by the meaning of axis. If axis refers to the imaginary line through head, torso and abdomen to the weight-bearinng leg and foot, how one should understand the claim that in apilado the couple shares a "common axis"?

There are two different things people in tango mean when they use the term "axis". (and that's not including any references to "axis of evil" type stuff!)

If you want more clarity from the term, I suggest eliminating "axis" entirely and substitute "Balance" and "Alignment"

Sometimes the two things (balance and alignment) correspond, and sometimes they don't.

You should always be maintaining the proper Alignment (one use of the term "axis", as you referred to above) within your own body.. ie: your posture, how you hold yourself, the way the various parts of your body line up to one another independent of how that line relates to the horizontal floor.

Maintaining this line means that sometimes you will be on Balance (the other use of the term "axis") and sometimes you won't. Just because you get led in (or lead) an off-balance move like a volcada, or are dancing apilado with a great deal of lean, doesn't mean you let your alignment go all to h***.

And just because you are on-balance doesn't mean you have maintained your proper alignment. I can compensate for my balance getting off by letting my alignment suffer and have one hip jutting out sideways to counter the oopsie somewhere else (like a tip of the shoulders). I can stick my rear way out while pressing forward. These aren't good technique, but I can still say "I'm balanced".

Both leaders and followers should be trying to maintain their Alignment all the time. A leader should not move in a way that forces the follower out of alignment, although he may deliberately take her off balance.

Conversely, unless she fears for her safety, a follower should not sacrifice her alignment to compensate for being taken off balance. If it was intentional, the leader expects to support her weight. If it wasn't intentional, her compensation will make it harder for him to fix the problem or learn what he did wrong.

I am of the philosophy that followers should allow themselves to go off balance up to the point where they feel unsafe, then make a deliberate motion of placing the free foot to save themselves even if no weight change was led, rather than allowing their alignment to all go wacky to stay on balance. Wacky alignment that's on balance really doesn't help the leader at all. Proper alignment that's off balance gives him more information. Having to take an unled step to avoid disaster sends a clear signal too.

It's also to a follower's advantage to work at keeping the alignment strong so that if she is muscled around, she will not get hurt. Compensating often involves movement that wrenches something that shouldn't be wrenched, often in the back.

So when people say "Maintain your axis", hopefully they are meaning "maintain your Alignment and Posture"

When they say "Take the follower off-axis", they mean "Deliberately lead a counter balanced move" (which means one or both individuals will be off balance but by virtue of their relation to each other, will provide mutual balance)

So forget the term axis.. it's not needed. Everything meant by it can be explained in words that don't cause so much confusion such as Alignment and Balance.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Again, regarding the above referenced paper..
They present "Models used to predict the scaling rules of animal locomotion", and for running it is the same model I used to look at dancing in the apilado position. One modification is that they they state that the "Falling forward" of locomotion is calculated from the center of mass rather than the top of the head.

 

[plugger]

All these suggestions are interesting and each seems plausible, which could mean either that there are clearer ways to state the concepts or that the terms are so rich in suggestion of multiple meanings that we should keep on using them. (Which we will anyway, I expect.) Here's my best shot.

AXIS: I eventually realized that my teacher uses the term most often in one particular and practical way – the exhortation to “Find her axis!” That advice is all-important. I think it means that I must discern, from the way my partner feels in the embrace, (1) whether she is securely balanced and (2) whether she is weighted on her left or right foot. (Her axis ends at one or the other.)
If her axis is insecure, I need to fix that before trying anything else. And if I can discern how she is “weighted” on one foot or the other, I know exactly what I can lead next and what I cannot lead without first changing my weight or hers.
There was mention of a center of gravity or mass, which is not the same as axis. If the two joined dancers are regarded as one body, it will have a center of mass that will either be located inside one of them or outside both of them, since it is unlikely to be in both dancers at the same time (although it could shift from one to the other as they dance.)
I suspect it will be somewhere between their bodies. If the embrace is close it could be at a point of contact and, in a sense, shared. (The “shared axis” in apilado.) In all styles, it’s probably roughly at navel height. The center of mass is important because if it moves outside their bodies, loss of balance occurs.
By the way, I doubt that in apilado it’s necessary for the partners to hold each other up. The force exerted chest-to-chest can be horizontal and provide an excellent connection even if each partner can stand up securely without the other’s support.
INTO THE FLOOR: I take this to simply mean lowering one’s center of mass. Other than wearing heavy shoes or carrying a lot of change in one’s pockets, this is best done by flexing the knees and keeping the feet flat on the floor through as much of a step as is feasible. That advice probably agrees with most accepted tango styling, but not all.
Yes, one can push down just as hard on the ball of the foot as on the heel or sole, but it feels most securely grounded when the entire foot is down. I think the advice to dance “into the floor” aims to produce a caminada that is in contact with the floor as much as possible and keeps the body low.
TANGO PHILOSOPHY: I tend to agree with the perceptive post that said a person dances tango for pleasure and that of the partner, enjoys and values being part of an international and cosmopolitan community and understands that the music and the customs of the milonga are inseparable from the dance experience. I might call it tango culture rather than philosophy, but I can’t think of a more likely meaning for the term.
TANGO AS A WAY OF LIFE: I take to mean that a person embraces the above “philosophy” along with a lifestyle that includes dancing tango often, socializing with others who dance tango, collecting tango music and in general being more involved in tango than in other dances or pursuits.
Thanks to all for responding to what might have been construed as a somewhat cranky question!

 

[Madahlia]

INTO THE FLOOR: I take this to simply mean lowering one’s center of mass. Other than wearing heavy shoes or carrying a lot of change in one’s pockets, this is best done by flexing the knees and keeping the feet flat on the floor through as much of a step as is feasible. That advice probably agrees with most accepted tango styling, but not all.
Yes, one can push down just as hard on the ball of the foot as on the heel or sole, but it feels most securely grounded when the entire foot is down. I think the advice to dance “into the floor” aims to produce a caminada that is in contact with the floor as much as possible and keeps the body low.

I've heard this phrase used in other dances as well and still have no idea what others mean by it but I've formed my own conclusions, right or wrong. When I feel I'm dancing well I have a strong sense of connection with the floor even more than with my partner, so I'm aware of gravity holding me down to it and being able to use it to push against giving me impetus and stability, in much the same way that I'm receiving force and impetus from my partner's lead. (I'm talking physics here, not actual man-handling, in case you were wondering.) In fact, the floor is more reliable and predictable than a physical lead, so it's good to keep in touch with it!

Connection with the floor is generally unconscious and unconsidered but I think it's (literally) fundamental. Without feeling conscious of how my mass is relating to the floor my dancing can feel rickety, insubstantial and unstable. I enjoy the 3D feel that using the floor gives me but I'm not consciously lowering my body or pressing my feet into it even though that's probably part of it. It's almost like the floor is leading me as much as my partner. Maybe leave off the hallucinogenics before going to the milonga next time, huh?

 

[UKDancer]

I really think that this 'into the floor' business is something which we feel and understand (to varying degrees) but cannot properly articulate. The words we have chosen are not very helpful ones. I don't know whether anyone could do better?

 

[Peaches]

By the way, I doubt that in apilado it’s necessary for the partners to hold each other up. The force exerted chest-to-chest can be horizontal and provide an excellent connection even if each partner can stand up securely without the other’s support.

I'm not doubting that there can be an excellent connection when both partners can stand securely on their own. Hell, for that matter, I can have an awesome connection with a partner dancing in open embrace. (Eye contact, don'cha know!) And, yes, even in apilado it feels as if most of the "force exerted" (I don't like thinking of it as force, and I certainly dislike the idea of exerting it anywhere...but if we're sticking with vaguely physics-ish terms I'll go with it.) is horizontal. No, no one is "holding up" the other person--at least not in the sense of carrying one another. But in that style neither partner can stand without the other. They ARE "holding" each other up (more like propping, really--think of balancing two cards against one another). And it IS necessary.

 

[newbie]

- What does "into the floor" mean? Gravity holds all of us down. Some great tango dancers take heel leads and some take ball leads, so that can't be the key. Does it mean, "Don't rise up as is done in ballroom waltz or foxtrot?" OK, but I NEVER rise that way in tango, and my feet are usually flat on the floor. When my teacher tells me to be more "into the floor," I'm sure she is right and that I am doing something wrong, but at times I don't know how I could be any more "into" the floor without taking a jackhammer to the hardwood. She probably means I need to flex the knees more and eliminate any rise of my torso and shoulders, etc.
I just wish the phrase would be replaced with something clearer for all students. It's also worth noting that even when ballroom dancers rise high on the balls of their feet, they are pressing INTO THE FLOOR. Don't physics majors at Stanford who dance tango ever gripe about this fuzzy term?

This one is a favourite of all the teachers. But if you ask what they mean they can just repeat "into the floor" like a mantra. I actually replied once that, of course I was into the floor because otherwise I would be floating in the air. To another teacher I asked if he was meaning that the knees had to be a bit flexed or something and he said no, don't flex the knees but you have to be into the floor. To yet another I asked if it was about the feet that had to be kept flat on the ground and he said no, I can be on my toes and into the floor. So for years it remained for me a kind of transcendental expression, that explains itself, like the pudding.

Of course even if I never met any teacher who was able to explain what it meaned, it never prevented them from telling me that I was not enough "into the floor".

So, the teachers being useless here, I created my own view about this notion. You're into the floor if you can hold a horizontal push or pull without having to move your feet to recover your balance. If you can stand up in the BsAs colectivo without using your hands then you're into the floor (if crowded, it does not count).

 

[Dave Bailey]

Maybe leave off the hallucinogenics before going to the milonga next time, huh?

Are you mad? How else could one cope with Negracha's?

I really think that this 'into the floor' business is something which we feel and understand (to varying degrees) but cannot properly articulate. The words we have chosen are not very helpful ones. I don't know whether anyone could do better?

Stability.