Standard dancer adding smooth?

[danceronice]

That is not correct. Tempos for slower dances (W, F) are faster and tempos faster dances (T, VW) are slower in smooth. Quickstep is faster than peabody, too (if we look at peabody as american quickstep)

Well then the music selection is more modern, making it seem more engaging. Standard music rarely sounds at all interesting. (And waltz seems glacial in both styles...) I know VW is slower simply because of the open work, but it's more active because you have options even in bronze beyond natural, reverse, change. (I kind of like Standard VW because it's EASY. You don't have to do anything but move. But it's not very interesting.)

I don't count Peabody as a real Smooth dance any more than Merengue or any of the other stuff they stick on Rhythm day to make extra money counts.

 

[JudeMorrigan]

Two points: there is, of course, absolutely nothing about standard that prohibits the use of modern music. I remember at my last comp we pulled an arrangement of Ibiza Swing for one of our quicksteps that sounded positively techno. It was ... kind of awesome.

Also, I'm not at all sure I would agree with the characterization of int. VW as easy. Structurally uncomplicated? Sure. Easy? No significantly more so than any other dance if you want to do it well.

 

[clumsy fellow]

Here are the #'s that I have for competitive dance;

Standard
Waltz - 84-90bpm
Fox - 112-120bpm
Tango - 124-132bpm
V.Waltz - 174-180bpm
Quickstep - 200-208bpm

Smooth
Waltz - 84-96bpm
Fox - 120-136bpm
Tango - 120-128bpm
V.Waltz - 162bpm


Right?

 

[JudeMorrigan]

It's going to vary a smidge from rulebook to rulebook and possibly from level to level. Your numbers for smooth look pretty spot on compared to what's in the NDCA rulebook, except it breaks those values down between bronze tempo and the tempo for all other levels. For example, it have bronze smooth waltz at 90-96 bpm and silver+ waltz at 84-90 bpm. It's much the same story for smooth foxtrot with the split being 128-136 for bronze and 120 for all others.

 

[GGinrhinestones]

It's going to vary a smidge from rulebook to rulebook and possibly from level to level. Your numbers for smooth look pretty spot on compared to what's in the NDCA rulebook, except it breaks those values down between bronze tempo and the tempo for all other levels. For example, it have bronze smooth waltz at 90-96 bpm and silver+ waltz at 84-90 bpm. It's much the same story for smooth foxtrot with the split being 128-136 for bronze and 120 for all others.

And since bronze (in American style, at least) is basically considered "social dancing" level, and looking at what Larinda alluded to above, we can conclude that when you exclude social dancing, foxtrot and waltz are the same for both smooth and standard. Makes sense to me.

 

[AStarDanced27]

My problems with standard have been that I feel very restricted. Technically, I struggle to have a frame that's strong but not stiff. I've had a lot of partner changes so I've had a really hard time learning to follow in standard; every time I try to work on connection with a partner he's had to stop dancing for some reason or another. I tend to rush through the counts, so I lose some musicality, which is frustrating because that's something I tend to be pretty good at.

I know not all these problems magically disappear when switching to smooth. I'm still going to need to find a partner, I still need to work on my frame. I think what happens when I dance standard is a lot of overthinking - I know I'm not great, so I try almost too hard to figure out what I need to fix, and end up not enjoying my dancing. For some reason I feel like there'd be less pressure in smooth.

I shouldn't completely give up on standard - got to eat my veggies to get big and strong! And I certainly would miss Quickstep (that is my favorite of the standard dances), but I feel like switching to smooth might let me play to my strengths, and maybe stop worrying so much about all the imperfections of my dancing.

 

[Josh]

To me, the object of top-level Standard is to come as close as possible to achieving comformity with the textbook ideal.
...
So at the top they SHOULD all be more or less indistinguishable. It SHOULD take an expert to spot the difference.

If you look at standard dancing in the 80s versus today, or even 90s versus today, or even early 2000s, you will note how different it looks. It's different because many have raised the bar and creatively developed the dances, not because they all are trying to look the same.

I find that in all styles of dance, those at the very top can be quite difficult to judge objectively; I think it always takes more or less an expert to differentiate similarly skilled dancers.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

When is a standard dancer ready to start learning smooth?

Is there a minimum proficiency in closed hold that you would recommend before someone start open hold work? Gold standard level swing?

 

[fascination]

such a difficult question.....I mean, there are differences in being a lead and a follow...which you can appreciate I am sure...and so manydifferent ways to lead in smooth....I think the main considerations in my mind are a solid understanding of position without being in closed and a solid sense of balance...and additionally, as a lead, there is going to be a bunch of new information needed there .....and yet, I am certain that with good instruction you are up to it ...the rest of it is about basic movement principles which you already grasp

 

[Dancing Irishman]

When is a standard dancer ready to start learning smooth?

Is there a minimum proficiency in closed hold that you would recommend before someone start open hold work? Gold standard level swing?

Whenever he/she decides they're interested in learning smooth. Ultimately, I think the question is whether that dancer wants his/her understanding of closed and open hold work to evolve in parallel or whether they want to have very strong closed work while their open work (and the transitions between open and closed) lag behind in a remedial stage for some time.

Also, I think that standard dancer would be substantially helped by understanding Latin, since some of the principles and techniques cross nicely between Latin and Smooth.

 

[GGinrhinestones]

When is a standard dancer ready to start learning smooth?

Is there a minimum proficiency in closed hold that you would recommend before someone start open hold work? Gold standard level swing?

This is a confusing question to me. But then, I started in smooth and never danced standard. They're different styles.

 

[GGinrhinestones]

Also, I think that standard dancer would be substantially helped by understanding Latin, since some of the principles and techniques cross nicely between Latin and Smooth.

Or learning rhythm. There is an awful lot of crossover between smooth and rhythm these days.

 

[Dancing Irishman]

Or learning rhythm. There is an awful lot of crossover between smooth and rhythm these days.

Fair point. Guess I answered from the perspective of a Latin dance learning smooth (who's never had a real coach for rhythm).

 

[Mengu]

When is a standard dancer ready to start learning smooth?

Is there a minimum proficiency in closed hold that you would recommend before someone start open hold work? Gold standard level swing?

It seems like a completely personal choice. I danced smooth and standard at the same time, when I was first learning, then I focused on standard only for many years. I'm now comfortable at gold standard, and felt this was a good place to pick up smooth again, so we put together some routines over the past 6 months, and I just started (like last Saturday) competing smooth in addition to standard.

A bronze standard dancer can be perfectly ready to start learning smooth. I don't think it's ever too early or too late.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Thanks for all the advice! For me, I think it's been more of a psychological barrier. I've always wanted to do smooth, but I've always had that feeling that I just needed to learn a bit more standard before I'd be ready to make the jump.

I'm currently dancing standard with someone less experienced. We tried a little smooth and she finds it very appealing. We played around with a one-hand-to-one-hand hold, having her follow me around the room with her eyes closed, as a sort of connection exercise.

I think we'll keep solidifying the core movement/position principles in standard for at least a few more months.