Standard Geekery

[j_alexandra]

Whine alert: Just returned from watching Standard at Constitution.

Please, for the love of dance, please stop with the toe leads in Tango when you're moving forward. Please. (And for those of you who are about to nitpick about IE of BH or whole foot etc, just don't. You know what I'm talking about.)

On the upside, I now will be five times as vigilant with my Tango footwork, which is IMO a rat's nest of variations. Why oh why couldn't it just be as simple as 90% of Waltz? Foxtrot? Even QS? But nooooo One Tango figure has the following follow footwork: BH/IE of FOOT/BH/IE of BH/H/IE of BH/H/H/IE of BH/Whole foot

That's ONE FIGURE

AAAAAAAAAAA <headwall headwall headwall>

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Please, for the love of dance, please stop with the toe leads in Tango when you're moving forward. Please. (And for those of you who are about to nitpick about IE of BH or whole foot etc, just don't. You know what I'm talking about.)

I actually don't know what you're talking about, as I've apparently never seen it. I did read about it in Smith-Hampshire's column decades ago, about a future world professional champion taking all toe leads in tango, but the only times I've actually seen consistent improper toe leads has been in people just starting to learn a step, doing them wrong.

Are you saying you're seeing the same thing in champ level Standard, or is it just an occasional error?

 

[j_alexandra]

Are you saying you're seeing the same thing in champ level Standard, or is it just an occasional error?

Pro-Am, from Newcomer to Open.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Pro-Am, from Newcomer to Open.

On the pros, too, or just on the students? If the pros are doing it, I would hope it would be on purpose, even if I still didn't like it.

 

[j_alexandra]

I was watching the students, not paying attention to the pros.

 

[j_alexandra]

Social Dance. That Guy. Trying to get me to execute some figure or other that I can't recognize, by starting off with telling me that he's having trouble with his Open Telemark. Considerable time later, he admits that he doesn't know how to go into promenade, he just does it. Nor does he know how to lead promenade. So, as you might imagine, he's having problems his partner with the Open Telemark, Natural Turn, Outside Swivel, Feather Ending (pp61-62 in my edition).

I catch a glimpse of him trying to do this with his lesson partner. At a certain point, he and she come ask for help from -- wait for it -- not Teach, the national 10 dance champion, the teacher's teacher, the studio owner, Mr. Fifty Years' Experience, but me. I take TG into dance hold, me leading, and put him into promenade so he can understand what is his reasonable service, what's required, what promenade actually is, and how to lead it at a basic, minimal level."Now you do it." He puts me into prom; it feels right; I go. Light bulbs shatter for 50 feet in every direction. He does it to Partner. Woo hoo!

The outside swivel is still not working. She's doing a stupid thing with her left foot. Brief conversation. She fixes it. They do a fine Open Telemark, Natural Turn, Outside Swivel, Feather Ending. Woo hoo!

So, Geek Friends: the so called Natural Turn in the middle of that Silver level amalgamation is an Open Natural Turn.

Does anyone have a more recent edition of Alex Moore and can look up the name of that figure in that amalgamation for me? My edition is, I believe, 1994.

b /c the most recent NDCA invigilation videos call it an Open Natural Turn.

Yes, I get that it is an Open Natural Turn. Why does Alex Moore call it just a plain old Natural Turn, which it is not FOR THE FOLLOW?

why

 

[Dancer Bob]

I have the 10th edition of Alex Moore, dated 2002, copyright by his (widow? daughter?). There is an absolutely ludicrous cover photo of what appears to be Argentine Tango (which Moore almost certainly never did), but from what I can see, nothing changed internally.
That amalgamation is given on page 61-62 of the ISTD syllabus, of which the latest edition is 2023, But all they did was change the cover, it's still internally the 1994 edition.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Yes, I get that it is an Open Natural Turn. Why does Alex Moore call it just a plain old Natural Turn, which it is not FOR THE FOLLOW?

He doesn't. The amalgamation has three figures:

Open telemark
Natural turn to outside swivel
Feather ending

If I were to guess, I would guess that the swivel part of the natural turn to outside swivel necessitates a preceding outside partner step that prevents a lady's heel turn in the natural turn part, so the natural turn part being an open natural is implied. "Open natural turn to outside swivel" would imply that there's an equivalent figure that starts with a regular natural turn, which there isn't.

An examiner would have to be a sadist to expect that answer, though. I guess that means it will be in the next edition of "questions & answers".

 

[j_alexandra]

He doesn't. The amalgamation has three figures:

Open telemark
Natural turn to outside swivel
Feather ending

An examiner would have to be a sadist to expect that answer, though. I guess that means it will be in the next edition of "questions & answers".

The name of the figure. That's what I asked about. He does, in fact, call it Open Telemark, Natural Turn, Outside Swivel, Feather Ending.

There is no Open Natural Turn in syllabus. Why couldn't he just reduce Follow Confusion by naming the middle figure an Open Natural Turn?

IT'S A RHETORICAL QUESTION

 

[Warren J. Dew]

The name of the figure. That's what I asked about. He does, in fact, call it Open Telemark, Natural Turn, Outside Swivel, Feather Ending.

Okay, this is different from my 1994 copy, which says "open telemark, natural turn to outside swivel and feather ending", which to me implies "natural turn to outside swivel" is a single figure.

 

[j_alexandra]

Hah. Another typo or something. The table of contents has commas as separators among figures; page 61 says "natural turn to outside swivel" but still, not "open natural turn."

There's little about the "natural turn" part of the figure that's like the actual syllabus Foxtrot Natural Turn.

Standard nomenclature. The gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

but still, not "open natural turn."

My contention is that this would be superfluous, because it's impossible to to dance a non-open natural turn to outside swivel. If the lady takes a natural turn with a heel turn, the next step can't have a side lead and the following step can't be outside partner, as is required for the outside swivel.

 

[Joe]

My contention is that this would be superfluous, because it's impossible to to dance a non-open natural turn to outside swivel.

Or, indeed, to dance a non-open natural turn from the promenade position in which the open telemark leaves the couples!

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

Or, indeed, to dance a non-open natural turn from the promenade position in which the open telemark leaves the couples!

Or to promenade the swivel on the feather finish of the outside natural heel turn telemark while performing a closed inside fleckerl on the short wall of the Viennese Tango!

 

[j_alexandra]

Or, indeed, to dance a non-open natural turn from the promenade position in which the open telemark leaves the couples!

So change the name. Which is what the NDCA has done. Reduces confusion. I'm not discussing what the figure is/how it works. I'm discussing whining about nomenclature.