Taking pictures at tango events - an intrusive practice?!

[opendoor]

...Photos of tango events don't actually influence the public... since only people already in the community view them...

...makes me think... what drew your attention in the first place?

Exactly these photos, ardix (and I wasn't part of the community)

On the way to and from my first job after graduation there was a very strange shop. It must have been around 1988. I always used to press my nose against the window pane to have a better view of the CD covers on the shelf. The covers featured couples in odd poses and contortions. Somehow I found that interesting. Behind the window was the workshop of Rocco Heins-Boness, a bandoneon luthier. I became friends with him and slowly slipped into the scene from the outside. However, I didn't start dancing until 2000, after divorce. But the photos on the covers and the posters of the tango festivals actually were the first starting point.

 

[TTanguero]

Someone takes an image of specific dancers which includes other identifiable dancers - if you're going to publish then you blur them out, or check, or don't use that. It might be legal, but it would be polite to check.

How would you go about that, exactly? "Hey, nobody leave the dance floor! I need to come and check this photo with you!"







(Just three random examples of the many tens of thousands of similar photos you will find online)

 

[Brummbaer]

How would you go about that, exactly?

I pointed at the different types you might have. If I've seen a photo being taken in the past which clearly included an identifiable me, I've asked for it to be deleted. I've known others who do the same. Respectful people comply.

As you said, if you go in, and those are the rules, then ok - as a general shot of the mêlée. If it's a specific couple which might clearly include me, then, I'll try to avoid, but, if it happens, sorry, no, you're not having that one.

 

[TTanguero]

If I've seen a photo being taken in the past which clearly included an identifiable me, I've asked for it to be deleted. I've known others who do the same. Respectful people comply.

Ok; you appeared from your earlier remarks to be suggesting that photographers should somehow proactively seek clearance, which clearly isn't practical.

But sure, if someone specifically asks not to be photographed, or for a photo to be deleted, no problem.

Often it would simply be a case of cropping the photo to exclude them. I recently shot video footage of a couple dancing at a milonga (by arrangement), and when I watched the footage afterwards, a leader in the background looked at the camera and made a facial expression which suggested he didn't want to be included, so I simply cropped the footage to exclude him (the beauty of shooting in 4K for 1080p output).

 

[Rabbit]

Which makes me think of something else, that should probably be a separate thread: how did you guys come into tango, what drew your attention in the first place?

I knew that tango was a dance with cool moves and was aware of Piazzolla as a composer, so it was something I had the idea in the back of my mind of trying for a while.

 

[Brummbaer]

Ok; you appeared from your earlier remarks to be suggesting that photographers should somehow proactively seek clearance, which clearly isn't practical.

Which is why I asked about the other couples in your AI-modified posting. They could be identified eventually, but they're irrelevant. Is it appropriate to fall back to legalese to justify their inclusion, or blur/crop them? There don't appear sufficient there to make it a marathon/encuentro, or maybe London's high-kickers frighten everyone else away?

 

[TTanguero]

There is no 'justification' needed for something which is absolutely the norm in London milongas.

 

[dncergrl2]

Years ago my husband and I were out dancing and a photographer tried to take our picture. My husband told him, “Come on, man, don’t do that, my wife might find out”. The sympathetic photographer left us alone all night. Lol.

 

[Tango Distance]

My dear wife and I went on a cruise, with a major company and on one of the world's largest cruise ships. We danced outside of restaurants that had live music, in the nightclubs, and at a huge dance party gathering. We were featured dancing on the cruise ship video that was always running on one of the TV channels! Apparently this major company doesn't think think there is any issue with taking and posting video!

 

[TTanguero]

Any photo skeptics, check out the likes and loves on the photos from last week's Cheltenham International Tango Festival: https://www.facebook.com/media/set?vanity=hector.espinosa.311&set=a.10229294139233297

For me, as with many others, they're a delightful memory of wonderful dances.

 

[Maria Jose]

For me, as with many others, they're a delightful memory of wonderful dances.

I agree with this! And I think the majority of dancers at a milonga would

I think the line could be traced at who is taking the pictures... I once had to go to a milonga with a group of visiting tourists (in Buenos Aires) and was assigned the task of taking pictures of them. But since I wasn't the venue's photographer --or any professional photographer at all--, I became extremely nervous about taking pictures where couples external to the group showed up.

I felt like I might be bothering or disturbing them -a random woman taking pictures of them with her phone. I tried to make sure they understood what I was doing from the context...

Beyond this... This is what I found in Tango Forge's "Etiquette guide" about Photography:

"Photography: Tango is a bit private. Feel free to tell photographers that you don’t want your photo taken or that they may not post or use it without your permission. If you want to photograph dancers, ask the organizers to let you make an announcement at the appropriate time so that people will know how you intend to use the photos, how they can contact you, etc. Build trust with dancers by being selective with the photos you post (make sure everybody looks great!). Finally, respect dancers’ privacy and the intimacy and delicacy of tango."

 

[simplified]

I wonder, how/when did this start, taking pictures of the participants dancing at different tango events? Somehow I am guessing that it is a slip, that cameras shifted focus from the couples of maestros performing/giving shows to the humble, regular participants. Only that there is an unbalance here, a sort of inequality: while the performing couples are fully aware of this and have trained in posing, the regular tanguer@s (well, most of them) are at loss - being either unaware or unskilled in posing. They are so immersed in the dance, in their own feelings that they somehow feel like being photographed naked - which they are, in a way, emotionally naked.

What is your take on this?

It is definitely a nuisance. Few people who go out to dance socially want to see their pictures posted all over on the internet the next morning.

The organizer of an event generally has the right to restrict picture taking. I think the solution would be for the organizer to allow picture taking for a pre-announced 30 minutes (say 9 to 9:30 or something like that). Those who don't want to be photographed would then take a break and refresh themselves. Depending on how many will stay on the dance floor during those 30 minutes, this could be a clear feedback to the organizer (and to the photographers).

Note that the problem is much worse at swing events which are generally attended by young(er) people who apparently no longer have any concept of privacy.

 

[JohnEm]

I think the solution would be for the organizer to allow picture taking for a pre-announced 30 minutes (say 9 to 9:30 or something like that).

30 minutes!! That is 27 minutes too long.

 

[Brummbaer]

30 minutes!! That is 27 minutes too long.

More like 30 minutes too long! If only they'd keep them off their social media. Had to 'discourage' a couple of intrusive photographers at a recent event (thrusting camera at every couple dancing by). Fine if you want it for yourself and partner as some memory, but just ask someone to take your photo. Selfie sticks should be banned as well!

 

[JohnEm]

More like 30 minutes too long! If only they'd keep them off their social media. Had to 'discourage' a couple of intrusive photographers at a recent event (thrusting camera at every couple dancing by). Fine if you want it for yourself and partner as some memory, but just ask someone to take your photo. Selfie sticks should be banned as well!

I recall a comment on an unrelated platform about how we live in vain times.
What we look like seems prioritised over what we do. Social AT is not photogenic
and photographs with both faces have to be posed.

There is a teacher local to me who teaches "Tango" in such a pose - a rigid hold
with both partners looking at their hands. He puts on shows with selected pupils..

The presence of cameras is intrusive and ambience changing.
People are subliminally influenced, or positively encouraged, to perform for video.
But cameras now are everywhere, even milonga organisers in Buenos Aires
often video and post on anti-social media.

In the days when photos were only taken by an appointed photographer and
dancers were too busy dancing to take a camera of their own we were encouraged
to dance as if no-one is watching. Now we have little alternative but to attempt
to ignore the ubiquitous presence of camera phones. Only we can stop any
unnecessarily intrusive, even objectionable, behaviour, But why should we have to?