Taking pictures at tango events - an intrusive practice?!

[Brummbaer]

Social AT is not photogenic
and photographs with both faces have to be posed.

I'd disagree - but it's subjective.

In the days when photos were only taken by an appointed photographer

The 'recent event' I referred to had two well-equipped photographers who were not dancing, so I'll presume 'appointed' since their images appeared on their social media + some video (smartphone?) and people with smartphones taking photos - mainly of friends (ah, vanity). The photographers were particularly intrusive along the LoD (basically in the way, and a worse obstacle than the couple in front), and annoyingly persistent (I had to strongly 'discourage' one, who did eventually avoid us).

As others have pointed out, it's sometimes implied in the acceptance of attendance. In other event types we're warned and told where to avoid. That's a bit more difficult with social AT. I also think that the world's internet servers really don't need filling with this junk, and for it to be retained... AI computing, along with facial recognition, is causing sufficient computing power issues.

 

[opendoor]

...Social AT is not photogenic... The presence of cameras is intrusive and ambience changing.
People are subliminally influenced, or positively encouraged, to perform...

The milgonga seems to have a different function for you than it has for me. The milonga is the most unsuitable place for dancing. I want to socialize there and defend my position in the pecking order through a few selected dances. Photos on social media therefore are very useful for me.

dance as if no-one is watching. Now we have little alternative...

But we have alternatives. We can rent practice space and dance with our dance partner until we are exhausted. Or we can invite a handful of dancers to our apartment and dance in a small group to challenging music. And of course you can also dance all alone at home.

 

[pianistamediano]

Photographers should delete photos if requested by people whose faces are recognisable enough in the photos. I think that's just common courtesy.

I think my opinion is shared with the majority of dancers, that photographs are a nice way of capturing fond memories for posterity. I've had some that managed to make me look good — no mean feat! The discerning photographer will try, as much as possible, to post publicly only photos that present their subjects in the best possible light.

Events (at least the marathons I've browsed through) do explicitly state the presence of photographers, and milongas occasionally do the same (at least where I'm at), but we can't really stop your average dancers from taking photos. That's the job of the organisers. If you don't want your photos taken, and notice someone taking a photo of yourself, then you should be going up to them yourself after the tanda and asking them to delete it.

If you do not want your photo to be taken, then do not go to events with official photographers. Milongas are more nebulous. If the milonga organiser doesn't take a hard stance against photography (e.g. no photo-taking is allowed at this milonga), then you'll always run the risk of having your photo taken.

My focus is entirely towards dancing with my partner, with the music, and with the other couples in the ronda, so I couldn't care less unless the photographer gets too intrusive and in my face, which I've never had happen to me, or seen it happen.

Professional photographers are actually professional, and professionals have standards, which amateurs should aspire to if they're not idiots.

 

[Brummbaer]

But we have alternatives. We can rent practice space and dance with our dance partner until we are exhausted. Or we can invite a handful of dancers to our apartment and dance in a small group to challenging music. And of course you can also dance all alone at home.

But it's social AT. Why should it be necessary to, effectively, stay at home to avoid these annoying idiots?

You want your images on social media? Get someone to take a set just showing you and post it.

If you do not want your photo to be taken, then do not go to events with official photographers.

There have, of course, been minor furores about CCTV in public spaces and a 'right' to privacy. Do we really need all these official photos? It just used to be a group photo, where some chose to opt out or hide. I'm more relaxed about it now since retirement. Of course, if it was children, or just young women, present, then there might be different and stricter views on privacy. I'll take that back on young women having noticed the numbers pouting and posing for a selfie in the wider world. The larger problem than the photos themselves is actually posting them on public social media.

To be fair, that photographer did delete the images; but it shouldn't have even been an issue. And he was blocking the LoD and 'in my face'.

 

[pianistamediano]

There have, of course, been minor furores about CCTV in public spaces and a 'right' to privacy. Do we really need all these official photos? It just used to be a group photo, where some chose to opt out or hide. I'm more relaxed about it now since retirement. Of course, if it was children, or just young women, present, then there might be different and stricter views on privacy. I'll take that back on young women having noticed the numbers pouting and posing for a selfie in the wider world. The larger problem than the photos themselves is actually posting them on public social media.

To be fair, that photographer did delete the images; but it shouldn't have even been an issue. And he was blocking the LoD and 'in my face'.

I don't think we need all these photos. As for want, well, that's up to the individual dancer. As far as I know, the majority of dancers want photos of themselves dancing posted publicly, or at least don't mind. I don't think photographers should be posting photos of dancers who prefer to remain private.

That photographer sounds like a prick.

 

[Brummbaer]

As for want, well, that's up to the individual dancer

If individuals want them, pay for a photographer and get them out of the way. In fact forcing the photographer to charge would help stop it. You want it on social media, you pay! I've no problem with individuals taking photos of themselves and posting them wherever they choose. As long as they're not doing it on the ronda and blocking it.

That photographer sounds like a prick.

They were. But others in the past have been as well.

It's not the photos as such, it's the social media and privacy. It was never wise to be identified and associated with images elsewhere.

 

[pianistamediano]

If individuals want them, pay for a photographer and get them out of the way. In fact forcing the photographer to charge would help stop it. You want it on social media, you pay!

It's the photographers who choose to do all that for free, or at least are paid by event organisers. You should push for photographers to get paid for doing this!

 

[Brummbaer]

It's the photographers who choose to do all that for free

There are no free lunches. Or they just lack business acumen so are being a nuisance at milongas.

 

[pianistamediano]

There are no free lunches. Or they just lack business acumen so are being a nuisance at milongas.

Or they're hobbyists who find it enjoyable.

 

[opendoor]

There have, of course, been minor furores about CCTV ..

Sorry, what is it? A counter clockwise volcadized tirada by chance?

 

[Greybeard]

Sorry, what is it? A counter clockwise volcadized tirada by chance?

Closed Circuit TV

 

[Brummbaer]

Sorry, what is it? A counter clockwise volcadized tirada by chance?

Maybe it isn't an issue in Belgium. In the UK every major city will have CCTV for traffic, and sometimes in pedestrian areas (that's ignoring shops, shopping malls, banks, supermarkets, etc). If I recall correctly the police were 'testing' image recognition in some pedestrian space in London. And it also gets used with demonstrations. So there's some expectation of privacy from the public. An ID card is not required (except for voting, but that's another issue). There were/are problems with image recognition and racial characteristics. So it was an issue about 'privacy' and racial stereotyping with targeting.

That gets us back to social media where, if you have resources, images can be compared and matched. Very simplistically(!), and aware of the paranoid dismissal, if I'm naíïve enough to post my picture, and maybe where I live, or my house, then an image when on holiday, or at a milonga, can show that I'm away and my house is empty, or my acquaintances.

And yes, I've checked social media for would-be employees and contractors.

I emphasize that's a simplistic case, and a lot of effort unless you have the resources, before it's dismissed as paranoia! A bit more concerning if your occupation is/was of interest, or you've been in an abusive relationship, or some minor celebrity, or politician...

I worked with someone who'd been in N. Ireland during the Troubles who was paranoid about checking his car every time he got in.

 

[pianistamediano]

That gets us back to social media where, if you have resources, images can be compared and matched. Very simplistically(!), and aware of the paranoid dismissal, if I'm naíïve enough to post my picture, and maybe where I live, or my house, then an image when on holiday, or at a milonga, can show that I'm away and my house is empty, or my acquaintances.

And yes, I've checked social media for would-be employees and contractors.

I emphasize that's a simplistic case, and a lot of effort unless you have the resources, before it's dismissed as paranoia! A bit more concerning if your occupation is/was of interest, or you've been in an abusive relationship, or some minor celebrity, or politician...

Social engineering (security).

 

[Brummbaer]

Social engineering (security).

One aspect. Just go with the simple and obvious: if you're evidently away, you're home is vulnerable. I have an acquaintance with a noticeable name. You don't post that you're away, nor want identifiable pictures of yourself posted when you are away.

Other people posting other dancers are pests, unless requested. A photographer who doesn't desist when told is a pest. Anyone disturbing the ronda,, if it's functioning, is a pest. I'm there to dance and socialise IRL, not fill social media.

 

[opendoor]

But it's social AT. Why should it be necessary to..

I wrote somewhere yesterday that social doesn't mean social, but simply is the opposite to courtly. I say this beforehand, but this knowledge isn't really relevant, as every generation defines the terms differently.
And also every particular dancer will define social differently. Some see it as an opportunity to meet the opposite sex. Many see it as a musically demanding hobby, many also see it as a stage for self-expression (me ?).
Yes, and I myself had very different ideas about what social really meant concerning my 24 years of tango, what it means now to me, and what it will be for me in the future. Social tango is a field, a three-dimensional field, and the z-axis is time.

Maybe it isn't an issue in Belgium...

Thanks for clarifying! But how could you know that I actually attend an (improv theatre) workshop in Gent this weekend?