Tango as a 'third place'

[JournalInTime]

That's never a 'debt' to be paid off! That's marketing social AT to your community and potential newcomers.

Yes, exactly! There are two basic approaches to being an organizer in AT:

1. Want to deem yourself a community-builder? Then you must do work that never ends, and that pays off mostly in appreciation. You might gain a little importance or money from it, but that's just a pleasant side effect – you cannot make it your end goal without becoming the second sort of organizer.

2. Believe that you've "paid your debt" and want to enjoy recognition for that in the form of importance or money? Then organize however and whatever you like, for whomever you like. However, don't go around claiming that you are "building" anything . . . you're no longer contributing, but rather are gatekeeping.

We see both approaches. The second one doesn't establish a "third place," though. At best, it's beside the point; at worst, it actively works against it.

Note also that both approaches can in principle be "for profit." The main difference is that the first either runs at narrow margins that just pay the overhead (often with organizers essentially volunteering much of the time), or runs at wider margins but reinvests in the community. The latter runs at wider margins so the organizers can pocket more. It's "community center" vs. "private gym," or "credit union" vs. "bank."

This isn't a moral judgment, by the way. AT needs both sorts of organizers!

As much as pure community-builders hate to admit it, what brings people to the community in the first place is often high-level performances and charismatic founder figures. These are features of the second approach more than the first. Nothing is truly "free," after all.

As much as gatekeepers hate to admit it, the viability of their businesses rests on the shoulders of "third places" that make the majority of dancers who are entirely ordinary and won't ever be "advanced" feel comfortable. These are what feeds glitzy shows and festivals, and what trickles a thin stream of new blood into their more exclusive events. And they are created by the first approach, not the second.

Not a lot of work for the 'organiser'; the 'community' did the work.

This is great when it happens! What makes it possible is taking the first approach to build community, and then once the community grows, making oneself small and letting the community stand in the spotlight – not putting oneself there.

 

[JournalInTime]

For instance, although I can barely call myself an organizer, my ex and I ran a práctica for a while. We sublet the studio of a for-profit, level-conscious school with a rather cliquish milonga, on an afternoon they didn't use. Then we set the admission price by dividing sublet cost plus supplies cost (for cleaning, refreshments, advertising, etc.) by a conservative attendance projection. We did not include labor costs in the calculation; we were giving an afternoon of labor per week back the community.

The admission price ended up being about half the going rate for prácticas here, so the event really caught on and ended up earning a profit despite wafer-thin margins. We pocketed enough of this to pay entry into a couple of milongas each week, but used the rest to print "attend 5, the 6th is free" loyalty cards, which ended up making the margin even thinner. And the gang at that event was really chummy, dancing across levels and doing stuff like celebrating birthdays together and going out for drinks in a group afterward. All were welcome, and it was closer to a social club with dancing than a dance event with socializing.

This arrangement ended not because it proved unsustainable, or fell out of popularity, or got crushed by angry competition, but because my co-organizer and I divorced, and the interpersonal fallout made it easier to end the joint venture . . . especially since our split coincided with the sale of the studio, which would've required us to present a united front to new owners at a time when the front was the opposite of united. This is a downside of "third places": They have a "heart" in the form of people, and bad things happening to those people can close the doors.

However, I've also worked for a festival that was quite level-conscious, bartended for events where the goal was purely money, and even been involved with a Tango BA preliminary. None of it was about community-building; it was all about high-level dancing and being exclusive. While I wasn't an organizer, I was lumped in with them by association, and saw how it worked. I think those festivals and competitions brought lots of people to tango, but I don't think they built community – I think they attracted people who were retained by events more like my old práctica.

 

[opendoor]

...brought lots of people to tango, but I don't think they built community – I think they attracted people who were retained by events more like my old práctica.

I understand "community building" less idealistically than you do. I also would subsume the formation of clique-ish structures below the city or hard-core level. Perhaps the snobbish dancers have arranged exclusive practice evenings among themselves. Maybe they share an apartment at some festival abroad. All the same with "social" in social dancing. "Social" doesn't come from "social".

 

[brujo]

This is a downside of "third places": They have a "heart" in the form of people, and bad things happening to those people can close the doors.

In my area a lot of these third spaces belong to different associations that open them up to the public. So the Veteran’s Hall will lend out their spaces to both milongas, blues nights, swing dancing, salsa, contact improv and tai chi. Other interesting dance places are historical cultural centers for Norwegian cultures, a former city hall turned into a dance studio, and dance pavilions in amusement parks. When people leave, for example two of the leaders of the West Coast Swing community are moving, often that particular flavor of the night closes but the third space still remains as a space and is open to someone else taking over. My local Lindy hop night was killed because improv was more popular and they needed a space, for example.

 

[JournalInTime]

the third space still remains as a space and is open to someone else taking over.

That's wonderful when it happens! In the personal example I gave, the physical premises we were using were sold off and the new owners had other plans for our time slot, so the event had to cope with losing its place, its time, and the people who'd done all the unpaid labor. That's a hard blow to recover from.

At this point, there's too much going on where I live – and the changes caused by the pandemic are too far-reaching – to consider reviving what I was doing close to 8 years ago. I'd be seen as a nobody from the past, trying to undercut established events. Still, I really miss those days. I do have contacts at a nearby studio that has no práctica, only milongas and classes, so I might take the risk of proposing something the one evening I think it could work . . . though it would be in conflict with a studio here whose organizers think they "own" that evening (a very anti-community behavior, in my opinion).

 

[brujo]

Still, I really miss those days. I do have contacts at a nearby studio that has no práctica, only milongas and classes, so I might take the risk of proposing something the one evening I think it could work . . .

There is an organizer that brought back his frequently attended milonga from years ago as a benefit that is like once a year. Teachers volunteer to teach for free, band plays for free and all proceeds go to a local charity. He only has to do all that busy work once a year so he doesn't burn out, and everyone just loves the event. You meet a ton of people that used to come out and don't anymore. It also makes whoever opposes that night look like a dweeb for complaining about a charity event.

 

[Rabbit]

I think those festivals and competitions brought lots of people to tango, but I don't think they built community – I think they attracted people who were retained by events more like my old práctica.

Apart from the Mundial in BA, I'm not sure any of these are visible to the general public.

Would be curious if a recent survey exists on how people are finding their way into the tango scene these days

 

[JournalInTime]

Apart from the Mundial in BA, I'm not sure any of these are visible to the general public.

Like everything we discuss here, it'll depend on the face of tango in your area.

The main venue for large modern tango orquestas here is (or was . . . the studio owner just passed away) an absolutely massive dancehall located in a sprawling shopping mall. Just 1/3 of the danceable area is larger than the next-largest milonga here, and when it's all opened up, it can hold hundreds of dancers dancing at the same time, plus more people seated and at the bars. They host country dance, Latin dance, line dance, swing dance, and non-style-specific parties that attract hordes of people all week – so they are very much "on the radar" – and they cross-advertise all of their events. Whenever they host live tango music, there's a significant number of non-tango people sitting around, having a drink, treating it as a show rather than as a dance party, and the organizers of the tango side of their programme definitely recruit students thanks to this.

Our arts district regularly has traveling tango shows, sometimes even in its headlining venues. We have two tours coming up this spring alone. These are always done with a nod to the local teaching and performing community – typically, it'll be made very clear where you can learn tango locally if you like what you see. One teaching couple in particular picks up a lot of students that way. (My own coach was associated with such a show for years, and when they came here, it certainly helped fill her calendar with private lessons.)

A very popular televised local dance competition has had tango dancers make it to the final rounds on several occasions. Thanks to that fame, two of the dancers ended up with a lot of students afterward. One in particular is teaching show tango almost full-time thanks to that – and like 'em or hate 'em, his dancers do come to milongas.

Honestly, next to all of the above, the Tango BA qualifiers were not particularly well attended, though it was still the case that most of the spectators weren't dancers, and that some decided to learn.

To estimate numbers: The show bar brings in hundreds at a time and thousands over the year. The touring shows are comparable in influence. The TV show reaches millions. The qualifiers attract only tens.

So, I think the commercial, showy, non-community-building side of tango very definitely brings in the general public where I live. I acknowledge, though, that these experiences are local and not universal! It might be a peculiarity of my region that there are huge show venues with mainstream advertising, bolstered by network television.

 

[brujo]

Like everything we discuss here, it'll depend on the face of tango in your area.

The main venue for large modern tango orquestas here is (or was . . . the studio owner just passed away) an absolutely massive dancehall located in a sprawling shopping mall. Just 1/3 of the danceable area is larger than the next-largest milonga here, and when it's all opened up, it can hold hundreds of dancers dancing at the same time, plus more people seated and at the bars.

There is a school like that here. It’s a 17,000 square foot converted warehouse with 3 ballrooms. Their Valentine’s Day event got 500 people showing up last year. Their model is super nice, you pay a fixed $$$ and can take all you can eat dance classes in different styles and get free entry to social dances ( ballroom, Cuban salsa, west coast swing, bachata, country, etc ). They used to have an excellent Argentine tango instructor and that actually led to a ton of people trying tango just because it was part of that group. Sadly the teacher moved to another city and the tango program there died but there were a lot of new faces from that.

 

[JournalInTime]

There is a school like that here. It’s a 17,000 square foot converted warehouse with 3 ballrooms. Their Valentine’s Day event got 500 people showing up last year. Their model is super nice, you pay a fixed $$$ and can take all you can eat dance classes in different styles and get free entry to social dances ( ballroom, Cuban salsa, west coast swing, bachata, country, etc ). They used to have an excellent Argentine tango instructor and that actually led to a ton of people trying tango just because it was part of that group. Sadly the teacher moved to another city and the tango program there died but there were a lot of new faces from that.

That's an enviable situation (well, all of it up to the departure of the teacher . . .). My experience is that cross-style exposure – at multi-style studios and dance events, via televised competitions, and in public exhibitions (I've danced with other tango dancers at free outdoor and shopping-mall events to show off tango so many times!) – is collectively the biggest source of recruitment to AT. Plenty of people are interested in dance; relatively few even know what a "tango" is or that it comes from Argentina (most non-tango people I know call it a "Latin dance," and more than a few have assumed to goes back to Spain somehow). Exposure to AT at a general dance celebration often fascinates people who previously had no interest in it at all.

Of course, none of that is about "third places": too many people, too much glitz, and no repeat exposure in the same place and at the same time for months or years. On the other hand, maybe an established "third place" for dancers of other styles could embrace tango. I'm not sure I've ever seen that, though at least one laid-back blues club here was including tango in its evenings for a while . . . I used to know the organizer, but she seems to have fallen off the face of the planet. It's sort of fascinating that tango milongas often have a "tropical tanda" or three where people dance Latin styles, but that Latin dance events don't have a "rioplatense set."

 

[Rabbit]

It's sort of fascinating that tango milongas often have a "tropical tanda" or three where people dance Latin styles, but that Latin dance events don't have a "rioplatense set."

I think it's just a quirk of cumbia being popular in Argentina. I don't remember multiple latin songs being played as a tanda anywhere except in BA. Usually the DJs that turn cortinas into a full length dance track if people are dancing them are Argentinian.

 

[brujo]

I think it's just a quirk of cumbia being popular in Argentina. I don't remember multiple latin songs being played as a tanda anywhere except in BA. Usually the DJs that turn cortinas into a full length dance track if people are dancing them are Argentinian.

The way it was explained to me is that often tango is so emotional and tense that people have longer cumbia or salsa cortinas just to chill a bit and have fun. In our local regional milonga people often hop over to the salsa night afterwards ( milonga ends at 10 while the salsa night starts classes at 9 and dancing at 10 ) so I can see the appeal.

 

[brujo]

Plenty of people are interested in dance; relatively few even know what a "tango" is or that it comes from Argentina (most non-tango people I know call it a "Latin dance," and more than a few have assumed to goes back to Spain somehow). Exposure to AT at a general dance celebration often fascinates people who previously had no interest in it at all.

This is where people saying a charismatic leader being the source of recruitment feels weird to me. More often than not it's someone from the community bringing a friend that already dances to tango. At the local university, the ballroom club changes themes of different dances every week and my tango friend invited a random person they met there to the milonga, she came and had a blast. Similarly I have people show up from swing events when we just told them there was going to be tango the next Friday at the same space. I remember popping over to a milonga after a bachata workshop and five people from that class came in to watch the dancing and one even joined the milonga.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Ahhh, my local community FINALLY got a new practica twice a month! My first real dancing in over 4 months! For a 2-hour practica with a 1-hr class before, the number of people who drove at least 2 hours each way, from 3 different states, showed how much there is a need that is finally being addressed. Lots of old familiar faces, lots of new faces. I brought along a former colleague (total beginner) who had expressed interest the past couple of years after hearing tales of my tango life. She was amazed at the level of friendliness she experienced, as well as the general joy she witnessed from people who saw each other after a long absence. Her comments about the community made me think of this thread. Most definitely a 3rd space. I so much wanted to socialize with old friends, but had such a need to dance from so many months’ withdrawal, so the time flew way too fast. Ahhh, I got to dance some really good tandas with really good dancers. I still have it in me…

 

[opendoor]

Over the weekend, I went to a coffee milonga, one I'd never been to before. After the second piece of the first tanda, I stopped, brought the follower back to her table, and took off my dancing shoes. I couldn't take another step; the floor was far too sticky.
But the afternoon turned out very well. As soon as you're not a dancer anymore, followers look at you much more relaxed and start conversations. I had some really substantial conversations with old acquaintances and unknown dancers. So the place actually transformed into a truly third space for me.