Tango Diaries

[opendoor]

..A lot of people have not mastered the art or technique of walking. As long as they move forward I don’t care..

I know that my worldview and my cosmos of experience are very foreign to you. But now I can return the favor. I find it simply self-righteous and very judgmental how you define the art of walking and the ronda as the measure of all things. For thirteen years now, I've had to dance tango without walking. The walk is extremely painful when you no longer have any cartilage in your knees. There certainly is tango without walking at a high level.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Magnum PI, Twin Peaks

Challenge ON
I look forward to the Magnum theme each weekend, and it makes me want to MOVE. Milonga like...Hitting the same spots where the music "hits" ...
Twin Peaks theme reminds of of one song I danced to not too long ago. My partner was more into her adornos than our connection and the music, but I could do SOMETHING with that music if I wasn't ready to leave the floor.

 

[tangoing]

I know that my worldview and my cosmos of experience are very foreign to you. But now I can return the favor. I find it simply self-righteous and very judgmental how you define the art of walking and the ronda as the measure of all things. For thirteen years now, I've had to dance tango without walking. The walk is extremely painful when you no longer have any cartilage in your knees. There certainly is tango without walking at a high level.

One can argue that the base of tango is the walk, which is basically just a step. And if your default step is bad then everything else sorta falls apart or at the very least feels off/empty.
That's why so many teachers reiterate that "push off the ground" saying, since the tango walk is a lot different from regular walking if you're conscious about it.

 

[Bailango]

I know that my worldview and my cosmos of experience are very foreign to you. But now I can return the favor. I find it simply self-righteous and very judgmental how you define the art of walking and the ronda as the measure of all things. For thirteen years now, I've had to dance tango without walking. The walk is extremely painful when you no longer have any cartilage in your knees. There certainly is tango without walking at a high level.

That’s not the same. You are putting a strawman. My comparison point was to those milongas (like described) in which people are dancing in place in a Ronda and stopping forward movement of line of dance. .

Having a condition that prevents you from walking is not the same as those who can’t out of incompetence.

If you say you dance without walking, do you not dance in the Ronda and instead dance in the center ?

 

[opendoor]

..do you not dance in the Ronda and instead dance in the center ?

When the ronda is fully packed I move to the centre. But in general I only dance when there is plenty of room on the floor, so that I can determine my own course not the roda.

..That's why so many teachers reiterate that "push off the ground" saying, since the tango walk is a lot different from regular walking if you're conscious about it.

I think "teachers" like that should take lessons from me. I'm (by necessity) the expert on walking.

 

[Miradamiranda]

You can also look at it differently: There's an inherent choreography in tango life. In Karate, you can't earn the higher dan grades on the mat anymore either. You can remain an integral part of the scene as a talented tango musician or a DJane. I'm currently in Berlin and am returning to the hotel euphoric, having danced for 20 minutes outside on the banks of the river Spree at sunset. I can't do any more than that on stone. I think I was still able to attract some attention. So my tango existence is still alive. That is why I am humble and grateful.

I love dancing there. Glad you had fun.

Oh I’m not sad I feel it’s downhill from now. No. My attitude is more stoic. What I have now in my tango life will not last, so I should enjoy what I have right now. Actually, it doesn’t get any better than this. I don’t take it for granted.

 

[itwillhappen]

Geeez, what you are quoting me saying here, I was surprised I wrote that, and out of context, it comes across as if I’m criticizing the crowd at the encuentro for being much older than myself. I was on the contrary admiring them, and it’s not that I’m far behind, in my 50s myself. Most of the men I danced with were of the normal age category for me to dance with.

I didn't take that as a criticism.
Some events — often called encuentros — are aimed more at an older audience; some — often called marathons — are aimed more at a younger audience.
I was at an encuentro the weekend before last, where the last (second) milonga ended at 11pm on Saturday.
And I was at a marathon last weekend, where the last (third) milonga ended at 5am.
So physical ability also plays a role, not just explicit or implicit selection criteria of the organizers.

The difference from what I normally see at full weekend events was the women. Encuentros like this, friendly towards all participants, where dancers go out of their way to dance with many different partners, are clearly to the benefit for women who otherwise might be aging out of the scene. Some of the people I chatted with said they mostly only (if not exclusively) go to encuentros. One guy said it’s for his wife’s sake, that in non-encuentro events she doesn’t get to dance much. There were plenty of women younger than myself, but the average was higher than at marathons, for sure.

I see encuentros (and marathons) as a retreat into a reserve — that's the advantage for the participants, that's the criticism by those excluded. From the length of the waiting list, one can conclude that the advantages lie more with women.

Women who dance with significantly older men experience problems over time. Firstly, because the latter eventually become physically unable to dance properly, but also because men statistically have a shorter life expectancy than women. (In Germany, 78 years to 83 years.)

Both can be beneficial for couples who want to ensure mutual satisfaction at an event.

So I feel that now is my peak in my tango life. All downhill from now on…. I’ll age out of the scene and my body won’t keep up sooner or later.

The question is, isn't the scene as a whole aging with us?

 

[Rabbit]

I didn't take that as a criticism.
Some events — often called encuentros — are aimed more at an older audience; some — often called marathons — are aimed more at a younger audience.
I was at an encuentro the weekend before last, where the last (second) milonga ended at 11pm on Saturday.
And I was at a marathon last weekend, where the last (third) milonga ended at 5am.
So physical ability also plays a role, not just explicit or implicit selection criteria of the organizers.

To be honest, even though I could physically dance every song if I had to, I don't want to hang out at milongas for 12 hours a day unless the venue ambience is something really special. After 5 hours or so I don't want to hear most of the same old music played by typical tango DJs anymore

I'd rather dance for a shorter time with more intensity and quality, and go do something else in the city or countryside during the day

I see encuentros (and marathons) as a retreat into a reserve.

Completely agree with this statement. And therefore I don't go to these events.

The question is, isn't the scene as a whole aging with us?

Well that's what I said to a friend yesterday too, but I don't think it was convincing.

 

[opendoor]

..though I could physically dance every song if I had to, I don't want to hang out at milongas for 12 hours a day unless the..

I can barely dance for more than 20 minutes anymore, but I still attend one or two marathons a year. First, I can soak up the atmosphere; second, I'm exploring the area primarily as a tourist; and third, I'm networking so I can maybe a DJ there next year.

 

[Miradamiranda]

isn't the scene as a whole aging with us?

Actually, I really don't think aging in tango is a comparable experience for men and women. Although women might have a longer life- and health span than men, the tango scene does not favor old ladies. Physical ability being comparable between a 75y + old man and woman, HE will have a lot less trouble getting the dances he wants than SHE will.
I, in my 50s have no trouble dancing with guys 20-30 years older than myself, and I do, regularly. A guy in his 50s who is a decent dancer, can get to dance with all the younger beautiful women.
Informal poll to you male dancers in the forum who are sbove, say 55: How many dances have you danced with women above 75 in the past month or so?

 

[Miradamiranda]

even though I could physically dance every song if I had to, I don't want to hang out at milongas for 12 hours a day

Oh, there’s something very special about getting into the alternate universe / trance-like mindset of a multi-day event with many many hours a day.

The other day, I was at my usual 4-hour local milonga and I was completely exhausted by the end. There were a lot of out-of-town’ers present that I had never seen before (long weekend), the DJ was fantastic, the room was as hot as a sauna. Not many of my regulars were present (4 at most). There was more space than usual, inviting a bigger-moves dance style with the music to match. I danced every single tanda except for 2 milongas and one vals where I avoided any eye contact so I could sneak out. And every dance seemed to be intense, technically advanced, physically demanding. I kept going and going and going. Of course, my ego got boosted that I was in demand, and I also wanted to give my best to these new-to-me dancers who had come from cities several hours away (other countries also). Afterwards I had a cooling-off 40-minute bike ride home in the dark, through the woods, counting the number of foxes sighted. I think to myself that sooner or later this will be too much. Well, I could get a car and I could learn to pace myself better. Oh, but wait, this was only a 4-hour milonga, nothing completed to the several all-day / all-night multi-day events I’ve been going to in recent months.

 

[Rabbit]

A guy in his 50s who is a decent dancer, can get to dance with all the younger beautiful women.

If they're just "decent", they're mostly getting those dances by directly inviting the women.

 

[Brummbaer]

Although women might have a longer life- and health span than men, the tango scene does not favor old ladies. Physical ability being comparable between a 75y + old man and woman, HE will have a lot less trouble getting the dances he wants than SHE will.

It's mixed. It's different. As an older [experienced] leader you do get dances with the PYTs because you're 'safe' AND, if experienced, you can dance. But then you also appreciate the older, experienced, followers because they can dance - and beginners because, well, you need skills to lead a beginner. You're not a 'hotshot' dancer who's too good to dance with anyone (or only the PYTs). This is about being social and having acquaintances, but not being the Lounge Lizard (Salonlöwe) - which is a very dated term!

I used to reflect that even if Maria Nieves were to turn up unknown at some milongas nowadays, then she wouldn't get invited to dance by some of the 'hotshots'.

 

[TTanguero]

Informal poll to you male dancers in the forum who are sbove, say 55: How many dances have you danced with women above 75 in the past month or so?

I am absolutely hopeless at guessing ages, so I have no idea. But I would guess that the majority of the followers I dance with are older than me simply because that's the primary demographic in my favoured milongas and festivals.

 

[Bailango]

: How many dances have you danced with women above 75 in the past month or so?

I haven’t been to milonga in several months. I do dance with ladies who are more fragile and their range of movement is limited than a fit 75 year old.

We do not have any regulars at milongas that I go to who could be above 75. Now it hard to hazard a guess by looks and how fit some could be. I think we top out at 65.

There is one particular afternoon milonga where someone in 50s would be considered young. And only a few are around. Depending on the milonga and where it is held the average age can be either between 30 and 40, or 40 and 50. Average age 40 or below is younger crowd. Average age 50, is comparatively older crowd. Rather than average it is better to call it median. As I said most popular ones rarely have anyone above 65-70. Men or women.