Tango Diaries

[JournalInTime]

That's just how it is.

Sure . . . but I've rarely accepted "That's just how it is" as an explanation for poor social behavior. That's too close to avoiding the trouble of working toward change because of the "working" part. I definitely talk up the subject with impressionable beginners, interested followers, and peer leaders who wonder how I did X in a small space. I'd do more were I an organizer.

Actually the only situations I get complimented on floorcraft is if I pull a tricky maneouvre to get out of a bad spot on the dance floor

To be fair, as I just implied, I do get compliments when I make something difficult work in a tight space. It's just mostly from observing leaders, not followers I'm dancing with.

 

[JournalInTime]

I have back muscles to spare.

In this specific case, the bit where he has 30+ kilos on me would matter. I have a high impact resistance – I built it up as a punk rocker – but as they say in combat sports, "Weight classes exist for a reason."

Also in this specific case, the bit where he just about always advances down the floor with his back to it, so his follower is presented to me, would give me pause. It wouldn't help my case with followers in the community if I were "the guy who crashed into followers" . . . because as I said earlier, followers see this as a leader thing, and the takeaway message would be that I'm a bad leader, because surely a teacher is not.

 

[JournalInTime]

I don't blame people for being mostly self-interested, especially followers; they usually have no idea how they can actively contribute to a good ronda, and I'm thankful for the followers that do know how to do so.

Having no idea is inexcusable. Followers can dance eyes-open on crowded floors and use hand pressure on the side of danger to warn of trouble in the leader's blind spots. They can keep their feet on the ground in a crowd – there's no such thing as a forced boleo or other high leg movement, so it's always a proposition that can be toned down if it's unsafe. They can do their half of keeping the abrazo compact by not sliding off to one side or sticking out their elbow. They can keep all steps within the leader's frame. I consider all of these things to be basic skills for non-beginner followers.

The toxic idea that leaders are solely responsible for floorcraft can't go away soon enough.

Yes.

But as with every other instance of undesirable behaviour by leaders, (some) followers still dance with the culprits

Also yes. I had that conversation last Friday. "Well, yes, I know he's a dangerous leader who breaks all the rules of floorcraft, but I don't like to say 'no' to him." I made a mental note to invite that follower a lot less often, which will matter to her because she seems to like dancing with me a lot.

This is usually, but not always, tied to a high perceived social status within the context of the milonga/local tango community

One more yes. I'd say that 80% or more of the time, it's status-linked. With leaders who don't outweigh me by 5 stone and/or use their followers as shields, I've started to be unapologetic about my refusal to tolerate bad behavior even if they're the regional so-and-so champion, beloved partner of 123 tangueras, and Mr. Popular. Several have started to enter the floor behind and never ahead of me.

 

[JournalInTime]

Dancing within the couple's own space is a skill, and if a teacher doesn't do so on a crowded floor, I'm going to assume they're incompetent.

Yes, it's definitely a skill!

It's beyond bizarre to think that steps, musicality, and technique are skills but that where, when, and how to use them is not. That's like saying it's a skill to operate the steering wheel, brakes, accelerator, etc. of a car to go fast and do fancy driving tricks right out of The Transporter, but it isn't a skill to avoid collisions and keep from running off the road.

In fact, I'd argue that floorcraft is the fundamental skill of social tango and that all the other stuff is in service to it. As one of my earlier teachers liked to say, "Until you can dance a step musically in the space accorded to you, you cannot claim to be able to dance the step, and in fact shouldn't go around saying that you can dance at all." I agree 100%. Social dance is about dancing around other people first, all the rest second.

 

[itwillhappen]

I think our disagreement is due to my poor English and a totally different understanding of "skill". For me, keeping to the ronda is not a "fundamental skill" but simply a decision.
Adults do not need lessons to make this decision. You either identify with this agreement or you don't, TTanguero.

Once you have made this decision, you definitely need skills and experience to create a pleasant tanda under the given conditions.

 

[opendoor]

Dancing within the couple's own space is a skill, and if a teacher doesn't do so on a crowded floor, I'm going to assume they're incompetent.

Sorry, I do not agree. Is it possible that you have fallen for the naturalistic fallacy? Incompetence is something totally different from recklessness.

 

[JournalInTime]

I think our disagreement is due to my poor English and a totally different understanding of "skill". For me, keeping to the ronda is not a "fundamental skill" but simply a decision.

"Skill" is used in lots of different ways in the anglosphere, but they all boil down to something that isn't natural (like breathing) and so must be learned. It doesn't matter much if it's learned via study, example, immersion, or pressure. If you're not born with it and have to acquire it, it's a skill. Some people use the term for composite entities, like "particle physics," "karate," or "Argentine tango"; others use it for discrete capacities, like "exponentiation," "kicking," or "boleos"; most uses address groups of capacities, like "applied math," "striking," or "musicality," which is where floorcraft lives.

Calling floorcraft a decision is odd . . . it's like saying "Not ramming your car into other cars is a decision" when it's a skill that relies on smaller skills like steering and braking, all of which collectively make up the larger skill of driving. Inasmuch as you can decide not to steer or brake, I guess those are decisions, but knowing when and how to do those things to keep from having a collision is still a skill. Yes, you can opt to ignore the skill and have a collision anyway, but if you're not insane, you won't do that, and you'll want the specific skill set needed to avoid collisions under non-ideal conditions.

 

[opendoor]

..Calling floorcraft a decision is odd . . .

Sorry, I called breaking the rules a decision.

 

[JournalInTime]

Sorry, I do not agree. Is it possible that you have fallen for the naturalistic fallacy? Incompetence is something totally different from recklessness.

How is it fallacious to see "not colliding with people and objects" as fundamental to dancing? It isn't a value judgment about "good" (an "ought"); it's an objective truth that you can't claim to know how to dance if you cannot avoid accidents (an "is").

"Can complete the technical movements associated with the dance style," "can use movements to express the music associated with the dance style," "can coordinate movements with another dancer," and "can negotiate the physical limits of the dance space" are fundamental criteria for saying "I can dance a social partner dance." Someone who claims to be able to teach such a dance should be able to communicate all of the above . . . I'd no more go to a teacher who lacks one of these skills than I'd go to a doctor who's great with eye exams and minor surgery but randomly prescribes drugs.

 

[opendoor]

Unfortunately it is this way, my friend. But even if the world is corrupt, we can at least be more precise in this forum and not always mix factual statements with moral ones.

 

[Bailango]

Was at a very crowded event last night, maybe a couple hundred people, maybe more. Floorcraft was abominable. Over the course of the entire evening and many tandas, only one other leader acknowledged me with a cabeceo upon entering the line of dance. One. And the laggards included several so-called "teachers." Guys leaving 10 feet of space in front of them so they can twirl around like dervishes to some big, slow DiSarli song. Hello? Earth to tango leader... What the hell are you dancing to? Ughh. Two guys bumped into us even though there was space behind me. How does that happen? How? Someone please teach these people how to dance in a social setting.

I hate such clownish behavior and floorcraft!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

But it's counterproductive. I'd never in a million years take lessons with a teacher who is apparently unable to dance in a ronda.

I think he was being ironic.

 

[Bailango]

I see it differently, Arbee!

Maybe they are short of money. It is not easy to earn money as a tango teacher. These people were basically advertising for themselves at what was, for you, a social dance event. You wanted to enjoy the party, but the teachers mentioned had to work hard instead.

They already know the rules and don't need to be taught. The organizers should have communicated the nature of the event more clearly and enforce the rules if necessary. But they were probably too cowardly to do so. Not these teachers are the problem, the organizer was.

he is talking about a local milonga I guess. We have a lot of local instructors. Nothing instructor would do at a milonga would net him or her more students. I find dancers are set in who they want to learn from.

But I agree the main problem was organizers. That still doesn’t absolve the rest as they were making a social event unsocial. Social encompasses many things including creating conducive environment for everyone. Being selfish is opposite of social.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The problem is two-fold — on the organisers' side, that organisers do not care, are afraid to police dancers for malicious floorcraft for fear of the consequences (whether they be an average, unknown dancer or famous professional), or are friends with him.

I was thinking of having a large sign made that reads "Floorcraft" and attaching it to a pole. Then I'd give it to the organizer to hold up in the center of the room when things get out of hand. Or maybe do it myself.

 

[Bailango]

I went to a practicalonga on Monday. A popular one. There were more women trying to lead than ever before.


The over the weekend I looked up Tango calendar. Three local instructors were all offering “leading for advance follower” workshops. Curiously two different instructors had the last 30 minutes devoted for “talk” - to discuss tango dancing. I don’t know which instructor stole the idea of the “talk” from the others. And only the “leading for advance followers” workshops had “talk”. None of the other listed workshops had “talk”.

I bet almost none of those attending these workshops are advanced followers. Rather they are even good intermediates.

P.S. - we are generally leader heavy scene.