Tango Diaries

I been going to Milongas lesser and lesser. I think in the past 6 months I have gone out 7 or 8 times.

Last year there has been marked increase in the rate of talkaceo and walkaceo. I am still not willing to adapt to it. Especially with those I have very little to no familiarity.

When it comes to socializing, I prefer it to be organic than forced. I don’t want to socialize so that I can get dances.

My another gripe is women looking less around wanting a dance. Some are looking at their phone or looking down. Only to jump up when asked verbally. I hardly find any men looking in their phone or texting during a Milonga.
 
I been going to Milongas lesser and lesser. I think in the past 6 months I have gone out 7 or 8 times.

Last year there has been marked increase in the rate of talkaceo and walkaceo. I am still not willing to adapt to it. Especially with those I have very little to no familiarity.

When it comes to socializing, I prefer it to be organic than forced. I don’t want to socialize so that I can get dances.

My another gripe is women looking less around wanting a dance. Some are looking at their phone or looking down. Only to jump up when asked verbally. I hardly find any men looking in their phone or texting during a Milonga.
I wonder if this has become the new normal at milongas?
 
I wonder if this has become the new normal at milongas?
I don’t know. Locally to the milongas I go, less number of followers will acknowledge a cabaceo where you don’t have to walk within 5 feet of them.

Rather than acknowledge, they aren’t seeking a cabaceo that’s further than 5 to 8 feet.
 
Rather than acknowledge, they aren’t seeking a cabeceo that’s further than 5 to 8 feet.

Could be because of the balance between leaders and followers — if they want to dance and are getting dances, maybe it's just that they have no need to look for one beyond that distance because of the adequate density of leaders in the venue.

Last year there has been marked increase in the rate of talkaceo and walkaceo. I am still not willing to adapt to it. Especially with those I have very little to no familiarity.

When it comes to socializing, I prefer it to be organic than forced. I don’t want to socialize so that I can get dances.

I think directly, verbally inviting an unfamiliar follower out of the blue feels weird for me; I only do that if we're in the middle of a conversation already and a good tanda comes up. Organic is definitely way better than forced. Honestly if it's the """good""" and/or """popular""" leaders that's doing that, then I don't think this trend is going to cease anytime soon unfortunately.

Honestly, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I've been experiencing something along similar lines here; I have my regular followers, of course, and enough that I can have a night worth going out for, especially if my absolute favourites are there for our usual multiple tandas, but I've completely given up on trying to invite (in any way, though I prefer cabeceo) the majority of the followers based here.

Other than the ones who've danced with me and decided that I'm not their cup of tea (fair enough!), the others don't look at me at all despite being me having been here for nigh on two years, so enough is enough.

I hope that at the very least, you can get some fulfilling dances whenever you head out to the milongas. Maybe look into travelling if you can to get your tango fix if things get worse.
 
Last year there has been marked increase in the rate of talkaceo and walkaceo.

Noticed the same here. Ok to be fair last milonga I did zero cabeceos either since people would come and greet me during cortinas and we would end up dancing, then eventually I got bored with the music and left
 
I don’t know. Locally to the milongas I go, less number of followers will acknowledge a cabaceo where you don’t have to walk within 5 feet of them.

Rather than acknowledge, they aren’t seeking a cabaceo that’s further than 5 to 8 feet.
This is the case with a lot of milongas in nyc now, only followers who consistently do mid-long range cabaceos are unfortunately the ones who don’t get a lot of dances in the first place (generally older and less skilled).
 
This is the case with a lot of milongas in nyc now, only followers who consistently do mid-long range cabaceos are unfortunately the ones who don’t get a lot of dances in the first place (generally older and less skilled).
Interesting. It's pretty much the opposite here: The only people using the mirada/cabeceo system are good dancers. The mediocre ones are using the "ambush at point-blank range, preferably in a corner" system. Just the other day, I caught an ultra-long range look clearly pointed my way. I nodded and we danced, and then I learned it was someone who was the national champion back home in 2022. This is closer to my experience with the system in general – not, "You get a national champion every time!", but definitely, "You get a partner in the top 10-25% most of the time, vs. the bottom third if the invitation isn't visual but verbal."
 
Dear diary. I miss tango. I miss good tango.

I’m temporarily back in my old home scene for a few months and the scene has completely collapsed since Covid. I go to the one weekly class of my old maestro (to support his declining studio - a shame, because he’s a highly trained teacher) and fill in for whatever role there is less of, hoping to develop a little bit of leading experience, but I often end up helping the beginning leaders instead. At least they are grateful, and it gets me out of the house. There are no good leaders that I desire to dance with here. Some of the followers have a lot of solid training and experience and encourage me to work on my leading since they also don’t have many good partners available. There are some sweet people to catch up with socially, though. My other home scene that is booming, it’s all about dancing one great tanda after another, with little time for socializing beyond brief small-talk - plus, I have a language barrier.
Yesterday, however, at a practilonga, organized with only one day notice, I went thinking nobody would be there other than a lady or two I could practice a couple of moves with. No local ladies showed up, but two local guys did. One, an 82-year old sweet guy with major health issues, who was so proud he managed to dance a whole tanda and thanked me for being a solid support for him in case he would feel weak. He didn’t dance with anyone else. To my surprise, a van full of decent dancers from a town 2 hours away showed up and dropped in before going to a salsa event. I’ve known the 3 guys for many many years, if not decades, and a couple of them have become somewhat decent tango dancers. A breath of fresh air for me. But only to remind me of what I’m missing out on at my other adopted home scene. Another month of patience and I’ll be back to world class dancing at two wonderful marathons / festivals in a row. Hopefully I won’t be too rusty.
At least my knee has had some time to heal and strengthen after a bike injury and a torn meniscus.
 
Interesting. It's pretty much the opposite here: The only people using the mirada/cabeceo system are good dancers. The mediocre ones are using the "ambush at point-blank range, preferably in a corner" system. Just the other day, I caught an ultra-long range look clearly pointed my way. I nodded and we danced, and then I learned it was someone who was the national champion back home in 2022. This is closer to my experience with the system in general – not, "You get a national champion every time!", but definitely, "You get a partner in the top 10-25% most of the time, vs. the bottom third if the invitation isn't visual but verbal."
Yeah I have a few theories why this is the case in nyc.
The average younger follower is generally better than the average older follower (just due to mobility/athleticism), and from the beginning people would just always verbally ask them and they just got used to that and never learned real distance cabaceo.
And for the good experienced older followers, they already have a network of friends who are comfortable with them using verbal invitations.
So the ones who primarily try to only use true cabaceo are the older and lesser skilled, on average anyways, it also depends on the milonga.
 
The average younger follower is generally better than the average older follower (just due to mobility/athleticism)
Also interesting. It doesn't really align with what I've experienced here.

We have a lot of younger followers. There are exceptions, but most are what I'd call "hyperactive": They feel that they must ornament every step, and they can't stay grounded, keep their feet on the floor, feel leads for tiny steps, or step around their leader and within their leader's frame instead of across their leader and thus the entire floor. Many cannot dance completely closed ("milonguero style," if you like) or replace pivots with crossing steps. Nearly all are recognizable by their bolt-upright posture, near-zero knee bend, and an almost aggressively separate axis.

These followers seem like they'd be good in tango shows, but that isn't the kind of "good" I care about at a social event like a milonga.

Older followers typically keep steps tight, conservative (e.g., rebotes in place of boleos), and "in the floor," know when to cross instead of pivot, and are happy to stay glued in close, so that it's possible to dance in a tiny square that rarely moves. That's actual social dance skill.

I guess somewhere between he 1980s and today, our community and yours diverged on what's important in the dance, and that appears to have had knock-on effects for things like invitations.
 
Well from what I’ve heard, a ton of the experienced dancers in nyc left after the pandemic, to cheaper cities, or simply they just don’t dance as much. So I guess the average skill level of the older crowd (not counting the many professionals), has dropped.
The floor craft at most milongas has become a mess. To the point where the host of one has placed tape on the ground drawing lines between the inner and outer rounda (it’s a rectangular space), which has worked remarkably well despite it being kinda tacky. Actually would wish they did this at all the other milongas now.
 
Well from what I’ve heard, a ton of the experienced dancers in nyc left after the pandemic, to cheaper cities, or simply they just don’t dance as much.
Aha, yes, that would change the situation anywhere!
The floor craft at most milongas has become a mess.
Ours has never been particularly good, unfortunately.

Tango didn't catch on quickly here, so entire cohorts of dancers – the ones who learned in the 1990s and 2000s – had huge amounts of space to dance in, and grew accustomed to that. Their time overlapped the peak of tango nuevo, the movements of which tend to occupy significant space. In the 2010s and 2020s, tango became a bigger deal locally, for whatever reason, and these same people made up the bulk of the teachers. They passed their experiences along to later cohorts; most taught tango nuevo movements but failed to teach floorcraft as its own thing, because it hadn't been relevant to them.

Anyway, being older here doesn't necessarily mean being a bad dancer, but it comes with troublesome floorcraft. Many 20- to 40-somethings in 1993 who were dancing athletic, open movements in place on empty floors have become 50- to 70-somethings still dancing too large and too static today, with the added burden of less athletic bodies. I'd say that our older dancers are technically fairly good, but also the primary cause of our floorcraft problems.

I'm not exempting myself, because I know there are people who dislike dancing around me. However, I at least make floorcraft a conscious priority, alongside musicality and connection to my partner. I cannot say whether my technique and vocabulary are below average, average, or above average, but at the milonga those things get little conscious attention from me compared to connection, floorcraft, and musicality – they stay at whatever level I've internalized during coaching and practice. Regarding the latter, I consider myself lucky to have had influential instructors who adopted "salon" or "milonguero" values as a direct reaction to the mess, and who drilled it into my head that social tango is a walking, constantly advancing, small-spaces dance, not a show.

To the point where the host of one has placed tape on the ground drawing lines between the inner and outer rounda (it’s a rectangular space), which has worked remarkably well despite it being kinda tacky. Actually would wish they did this at all the other milongas now.
I wish the organizers of milongas here would speak up to the worst offenders. Unfortunately, many of them are the worst offenders (I'm visualizing one who zigzags between lanes, another who parks and dances figures that block the line of dance, and yet another who has led partners into me repeatedly because all his turns are huge orbits). The rest of the offenders are friends or long-time, we-don't-dare-lose-them clients of these organizers. I think that many of them find my drive forward down the line of dance with walking steps, and willingness and ability to dance fast, small turns so close that other couples can smell my breath mint, to be bigger problems than parking, reversing, huge orbits, and high leg movements.
 
To the point where the host of one has placed tape on the ground drawing lines between the inner and outer rounda (it’s a rectangular space), which has worked remarkably well despite it being kinda tacky. Actually would wish they did this at all the other milongas now.

I wish people would do that here too. I don't care about the ronda for its own sake (a lot of my most enjoyable dances were on empty floors at the end of the milonga) but having a clearly defined inside and outside would make things easier for everyone, it's annoying when people dance halfway between the outside and inside or repeately switch lanes when the space isnt completely uncontested.
 
I wish the organizers of milongas here would speak up to the worst offenders. Unfortunately, many of them are the worst offenders (I'm visualizing one who zigzags between lanes, another who parks and dances figures that block the line of dance, and yet another who has led partners into me repeatedly because all his turns are huge orbits). The rest of the offenders are friends or long-time, we-don't-dare-lose-them clients of these organizers. I think that many of them find my drive forward down the line of dance with walking steps, and willingness and ability to dance fast, small turns so close that other couples can smell my breath mint, to be bigger problems than parking, reversing, huge orbits, and high leg movements.
So in some milongas here there are 2 inner lanes, so 3 lanes in total. But the two inner ones often blur into each other, so I often face a dilemma of if I should zigzag if there’s a slow couple parked in front of me or not.

The outer lane also becomes a mess at one corner (where everyone enters), so I actually do zigzag at that point. If you unfortunately get stuck there it basically becomes an undanceable spot
 
Other than the ones who've danced with me and decided that I'm not their cup of tea (fair enough!), the others don't look at me at all despite being me having been here for nigh on two years, so enough is enough.
I think you've been around for a while and they've been around for a while and you've never danced because she never wanted to, the chance of that happening in the future is slim. A lot of women would, apparently, just rather sit.
 

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