Tango Diaries

[Bailango]

Please define active following. Would love to learn your idea.

Like @opendoor said, there was a long discussion about it. Perhaps you can post there.

It definitely is not backleading. What you described are elements of good following that should be taught. Active following is when follower is not only following what is led but also introducing her ideas without disrupting the lead. That last part is important.

Some leaders might welcome active following and some leaders might reject active following. A follower is able to judge that.

Very simple example of active following could be adding a hesitation or adding a syncopation when stepping. As a leader you were always not leading a single time regular step. The hesitation or syncopating her steps won’t interfere with your single step as a leader. Similarly as a leader you could lead follower into a single step but syncopate your own step. A more common example would be you lead a orcho cortado. A follower could decide to half time the pivot (take twice the time to pivot), especially if there is a melody that stretches the note. A not-so-simple example is where follower can influence what your next lead is, but most active following is about extending what you lead.

I’m super curious because I just used it as a passing description but this seems to have some hidden specific meaning.

No hidden meaning. WCS has highest percentage of followers who dance actively.

 

[Bailango]

The current societal paradigm (in Northern Europe) dictates that women influence the dancing to 50%.
The term "embellishments" is worn out and no longer acceptable ... so how about "active following"?

Embellishments and adornos are decorations. They have specific meaning with in tango as we understand. Unless you want to embellish the meaning itself

You can fill that in with whatever content you can imagine.

That’s too lose and ambiguous which would permit people to justify bad dancing like back leading.

 

[brujo]

No hidden meaning. WCS has highest percentage of followers who dance actively.

I think this is difficult to translate from dance to dance. In dances like swing and fusion switching lead and follow is encouraged but in dances like salsa or tango this is super frown upon. Someone used to hijacking or open shines can’t really take those concepts straight into tango. So the idea of what a follower communicates back to the lead is differently defined. Tango feels less screamy and more subtle.

 

[opendoor]

Yes I do remember it very well. But you were against the concept of active following. I have an opposite opinion..

That's not entirely true. I simply want to reserve the right to lead solely through projection with certain pieces. Furthermore, I see "active leading" more in the context of neotango and WCS.

 

[Rabbit]

A good follower can also add adornos between the movements without the leader being aware of it.

No they can't, not if the leader is listening anyway. If the movement is small, sometimes I can tell the follower did something on a certain timing but not exactly what

In any case I want to feel it, it's part of the dance communication

I also give my partners explicit permission to do anything they feel, even if I didn't lead it. We should be dancers, not just leaders and followers. if I wanted to control every detail, I'd dance solo or make a choreography.

 

[Rabbit]

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[pianistamediano]

without disrupting the lead.

A lot of followers fall into this trap, unfortunately. But it's all part of the learning experience — unless they never grow out of it, then it becomes tiresome.

What I really like most is when my follower dances an accompanying phrase while I dance another part. That is harmony.

 

[itwillhappen]

That’s too lose and ambiguous which would permit people to justify bad dancing like back leading.

Isn't that more the norm than the exception in tango?

 

[Bailango]

I think this is difficult to translate from dance to dance. In dances like swing and fusion switching lead and follow is encouraged but in dances like salsa or tango this is super frown upon. Someone used to hijacking or open shines can’t really take those concepts straight into tango. So the idea of what a follower communicates back to the lead is differently defined. Tango feels less screamy and more subtle.

I am not talking about role switching. In WCS there appears to be well established tradition of active following. Hijacking is different.

Active following in Tango is subtle when compared with WCS. In WCS an observer can perhaps tell when a follower is actively following. In Tango it is hard to impossible for an observer to tell the same.

You are right. You can’t translate it from dance to dance. But the concepts like how to lead or how to follow are universal across dances. So is active following. It is easier in some dances and harder in the others.

 

[Bailango]

No they can't, not if the leader is listening anyway. If the movement is small, sometimes I can tell the follower did something on a certain timing but not exactly what

I can tell most of the time. But there are followers who are quick and subtle. You might get a vague feeling perhaps they did something, or not.

I tend to certain things with my feet. Followers too can sense it. I try to do it as quick and quietly as possible. Many of the followers will try to react even though they have no idea what I did.

 

[Bailango]

Isn't that more the norm than the exception in tango?

Bad dancing or back leading ?

 

[opendoor]

I can tell most of the time. But there are followers who are quick and subtle. You might get a vague feeling perhaps they did something, or not…

I see it like you do; I actually can sense a lot, but not everything.

..I tend to certain things with my feet. Followers too can sense it. I try to do it as quick and quietly as possible. Many of the followers will try to react even though they have no idea what I did.

My dance partners also sense most of my golpes, punteos, and rebotes. This can lead to a rhythmic dialogue within the framework of the music and its interpretation.

Therefore, I disagree with itwillhappen that embellishments are outdated. But to clarify, embellishments only are micro-scale interventions, while "active following" is located at medium reach.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Furthermore, I see "active leading" more in the context of neotango and

Interesting! In fact I find I personally am less active in Neo music / Nuevo dancing, because a) the more modern/ alt music often has (to me) a more boring rhythmic language and less multilayerdness that inspires me to express my interpretation of the music, and b) those dancers who are into highly technical fancy moves often don’t leave space.

Late Pugliese and similar is where I really get active because I love and know so many details in the music.

 

[brujo]

You are right. You can’t translate it from dance to dance. But the concepts like how to lead or how to follow are universal across dances. So is active following. It is easier in some dances and harder in the others.

For me at least, the tango frame being required to be a lot stiffer means that the leading is radically different and a lot of communication that I am used to in other dances.

When I dance with a westie, salsa or bachata dancer I can read a lot more from what they want by things like body waves, shoulders etc. A lot of that information is in the upper body. Whereas in tango this sort of movement interferes with the embrace and I’ve been warned that it is not expected by tango followers repeatedly. There is also this assumption that every step is lead, where this is not true in a lot of the other dances where there are openings for improvisation or moments where you dance disconnected from one another.

So while the notion of “active” following might exist in other dances, the way it is defined in each dance is so very different. It manifests differently for sure. The amount of hip action that a follow gives me in bachata is part of the active part of that dance, which won’t apply to tango.

I’m not sure you can easily translate lead and following in this context. Light following and leading is great in some dances or the ballroom frame, but a lot of that have been considered “things I need to fix” in my tango.

 

[opendoor]

Interesting.. I personally am less active in Neo music...

I also believe that personal taste is an important driving force. However, I actually do wonder where you, as a musician, expect to find multilayeredness and rhythmic diversity in the corpus of traditional, old tango music? You stick to one exception, but keep in mind that there are more lousy productions in the GA than good ones, and the former usually are played at milongas.

Interesting.. I personally am less active in Neo music...

My understanding of "active following" is totally different. I use this term technically, you colloquially. In WCS, the leading person gives a dynamic impulse. Aside from the direction, the follower is free to set out on her way. At the end of the phrase the lead catches the follower and gives the next impulse. Naviera's "active following" is a analogous build. However, here the leading person doesn't give an impulse, but rather opens the space. The follower now trolls into this space and is finally caught by the leader again.

..and b) those dancers who are into highly technical fancy moves often don’t leave space..

These people should just read my posts here on DF instead of mixing techniques across stylistic boundaries.