Tango in times of pandemic

[Bailango]

That's what we all thought, but Germany is currently entering a severe wave of infections, for which they blame anti-vaxxers

Tracking statistics across high vaccinated small and large countries like USA, UK, Israel, Singapore proves two things. Most at risk of hospitalization resulting from breakthrough infections are 75+. Over 99% below age of 65 suffer only mild illness from breakthrough. A vast majority of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

There is now more evidence that a vaccinated person who is a breakthrough case, is far less likely to pass on the infection. In early days of vaccine this was an unknown.

Regarding milongas, we have been dancing since May. All milongas are back for the past few months. Since May, vaccination status is mandatory at every indoor milonga/venue. Masks at dancing was relaxed when California started following CDC guidelines in June, then reimposed in early Aug, and no longer required since last month. Mandating fully vaccinated crowd to wear masks is non-scientific. The authorities have been polar opposite of say FL or TX. Amazingly all of them ignore scientific basis for their opposite decisions! The people in this region are very compliant.

 

[Brummbaer]

That's what we all thought, but Germany is currently entering a severe wave of infections, for which they blame anti-vaxxers

Yes, there's certainly talk of the tyrannical views of anti-vaxxers, but also of the waning of vaccine effectiveness and the need for a booster.

And yet the infection and morbidity rate figures are currently around half of the UK, but showing a very rapid increase. Vaccination level there is similar to the UK (depending how you count total population to get a percentage).

Whilst not getting too far into the politics on this forum (ok, my sarcasm shows), I said 'relatively'. No country seems to have an ideal solution. Sometimes any country likes to contrast some figures to show exceptionalism, and it's necessary to look at trends over a longer time rather than daily comparisons. I suppose my point about 'relatively sensible' is that, given the perceived trends, there's an active discussion to do something to make things better rather than denial of a problem in favour of some other desire.

There's no single solution to overcome the pandemic, and it's certainly unwise to rely on one measure alone. It's going to be with us for some time, so there a need to 'live with it', which means being cautious and not racing back to 'normal'. Some things are going to be more effective than others.

As far as AT, milongas, etc., I think, or maybe hope, we can get something back to something safely (!), but not as it's currently being approached by some. That 'something' won't be the normal of pre-pandemic for some years yet.

In fact, arranged to go to a 'limited' milonga in a few weeks, although might cancel depending on trends and how the venue is managed.

 

[Bailango]

As far as AT, milongas, etc., I think, or maybe hope, we can get something back to something safely (!), but not as it's currently being approached by some. That 'something' won't be the normal of pre-pandemic for some years yet.

But for proof of vaccination (all milongas) and no food/water provided (in some milongas), in our area the AT is back to pre-pandemic normal.

 

[Brummbaer]

But for proof of vaccination (all milongas) and no food/water provided (in some milongas), in our area the AT is back to pre-pandemic normal.

Indeed. And some are like that, or even beyond that, in the UK. The question is whether that's wise. I'm missing the issue with food and water since fomite transmission for an airborne virus is small, but I guess we need some theatre. In the UK, and probably elsewhere, you could go back completely to the way it was with absolutely no restrictions, and you'd certainly get attendees. A milonga is just microcosm of society - but in closer proximity.

 

[Rabbit]

In the UK, and probably elsewhere, you could go back completely to the way it was with absolutely no restrictions, and you'd certainly get attendees.

We've already done that.

I totally understand people who feel they or their family are at higher risk and don't want to go out until the general population has reached herd immunity / stable endemic status, or more pharmaceuticals become available. I hope both conditions should be satisfied in early 2022.

Basically the scenario we're testing now is whether it was better to open up earlier (UK) or later (Germany). I argued a few months ago that choosing to open up later would just push the 3rd/4th wave peak into winter, and unfortunately that theory might have been correct.

 

[Brummbaer]

We've already done that

Yes, agree that is the case, at least in London and lots of other places. Some never bothered to change.

the scenario we're testing now is whether it was better to open up earlier (UK) or later (Germany)

Which brings up the question of the wisdom, and maybe morality, of that cavalier, unorganised, test approach, especially when you count failure in potentially unnecessary deaths, and then maybe no win anyway as further measures required. A 'win' would be 'I' survived to tango on, and death rates are now decreasing. It looks as if a lot of 'we' bought into that, so we'll see how death rates go over the winter.

At least that is an active discussion elsewhere.

 

[Greybeard]

I'm missing the issue with food and water ...

You have to take your mask off to eat or drink.

It's maybe a little extreme, at least current conditions where I live. (In my opinion)

 

[Brummbaer]

You have to take your mask off to eat or drink.

Ah, thank you.

Those milongas which are taking place near us were and are maskless, but are not providing water or food (where they used to). It's BYO. Similarly lessons, which were always without mask but fixed partner - no water provided. I'd mistakenly assumed that scenario and wondered why there was a perceived problem.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Fear of spreading = someone else's problem

Fear of catching? Someone once mentioned world-beating (™) vaccine programme and we're all friends here (maybe look at UK politics for that). But forgot that the effectiveness of these vaccines wane with time.

Yeah, well, we may be friendly, but we're not all friends and certainly not close friends. Regardless, it's a lame argument.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Ah, thank you.

Those milongas which are taking place near us were and are maskless, but are not providing water or food (where they used to). It's BYO. Similarly lessons, which were always without mask but fixed partner - no water provided. I'd mistakenly assumed that scenario and wondered why there was a perceived problem.

Interesting. Here, the open milongas (vaccination proof required) often have bars and serve drinks. Some provide snacks at the bar as well. So, kind of like in the past aside from the handful of people wearing masks. But there's a lot of eating, drinking, and general merriment.

 

[Bailango]

Here, it has been a mix bag. The food/water policy at a milonga venue is dictated by either organizer or the owner. For milongas that are organized in bar/restaurant, drinking and food is encouraged as that is how the venue makes money. The same organizer when hosting at another milonga at a studio is not allowed to serve water. It has become a mix bag. Some non-bar/non-restaurant venues are okay with food/drinks, others are okay only with BYO, and a few are strictly no food/drinks. Strict ones are a minority.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Here, it has been a mix bag. The food/water policy at a milonga venue is dictated by either organizer or the owner. For milongas that are organized in bar/restaurant, drinking and food is encouraged as that is how the venue makes money. The same organizer when hosting at another milonga at a studio is not allowed to serve water. It has become a mix bag. Some non-bar/non-restaurant venues are okay with food/drinks, others are okay only with BYO, and a few are strictly no food/drinks. Strict ones are a minority.

Quite mixed. Here, some milongas held in studios (dance studios) do provide refreshments to the dancers. Those held in bars or restaurants obviously provide food and drink. All the rest, you can bring your own.

 

[Numawan]

One of my best friends died from Covid yesterday evening. He was 53. Didn't have any aggravating health issues that I know of. Was double vaccinated since June. Went in intensive care three weeks ago (but not entubed). After two weeks, his condition seemed to improve. Then suddenly, complications at respiratory level started to appear and he had to be entubed.

Just saying ...

 

[Tangogal]

One of my best friends died from Covid yesterday evening.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[TTanguero]

One of my best friends died from Covid yesterday evening.

Very sorry to hear that, Numawan.