Tango in times of pandemic
- Thread starter rafaelomondini
- Start date
The problem is that LFTs are being used to 'prove a negative', which is not what they were authorised for. As a means of actually testing for infection they have some value IF used correctly.
This is a major problem. We used to have doors open 'up north' in the summer, but now there's cold weather (some snow in pockets on the northern fells) and the heating is on with less ventilation. I'm longing for an 'inside out' milonga, but I realise for many it's not a real milonga without partner change. Not too happy with that until we have further information.
I think that just emphasizes the need for mandated restrictions and checks, in the absence of any trustworthy leadership. We can't expect dance organisers to research and make a decision based on good scientific advice (even if they accept what's 'good' and what's 'science' based on 5mins internet searching). Additionally they have the contradictory motivations of own income and cancelling events for safety. Past experience indicates that some would-be attendees are not trustworthy. I'd just like organizers to actually check vaccination status and, despite the obvious possibility of faking a result and it's overall value, a negative test within, say, the last 2 hours. I'll even go with wearing a certified FFP2 mask. Anything which makes the risk acceptable.
snapdancer
Forum Master
When discussing LFT accuracy, the tendency is to focus on the failures rather than the successes. If a LFT is 99% accurate, then it has reduced your risk by 99% if it is done just before the event. If a LFT is "inaccurate" because it is less sensitive it is accurate enough if it detects someone who is currently infectious. A PCR test may be more sensitive but less effective if the test result doesn't arrive for 24 hours, 48 hours, or even longer.
Problem is LFTs have 100% chance of returning a false negative
if the self-tester doesn't activate it at all but registers a false
(actually a nil) negative. The UK reporting system has no way
of detecting that. So, someone in a hurry, or can't be bothered . . . .
As for ventilation, usually a lack of it, I know of no premises
for dancing (not just tango) with adequate ventilation in these
covid times. The new Omicron variant seems to be even more
transmissible - perhaps all these spike changes promote
improved air suspension or flotation.
But, if my info is correct, LFTs measure some threshold of antibodies which bind to the virus, whereas PCR tests measure some threshold of the genetic material of the virus (and there are some issues with PCR tests and Omicron).
The key problem is that an LFT can be 100% inaccurate if the tester, for whatever reason, doesn't carry out the test correctly. So they can easily be above some response threshold, but the result doesn't show that. If the test is done correctly then it's fine for showing the likely presence of Covid-19. A PCR test is different, but the requirement for an independent tester helps a lot.
I've done a few LFT tests, which have been negative, and I've never had symptoms. But have I tested correctly?
TTanguero
Forum Master
Yep, even health professionals can fail to do it properly, and most civilians are completely crap at it because doing it properly is uncomfortable.
The reason they changed the advice to nasal swab only is not because that’s fine – it’s not, a nasal-only swab generates a lot of false negatives – it’s because most people won’t test at all if they have to include throat.
The first time yes, but once done the next wasn't so bad.
When making claims like that, you really should quote sources.
The first thing an LFT appears to do is indicate the suitability
of the swab so presumably adjusted for the source(s) specified.
Frankly, I don't see the problem in this case. But a self-executed
LFT of any kind is not fit for the purpose of infection-free admission.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Well, here the organizers solved that for us by cancelling most events. So booster or no booster, there's no tango.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Curious, what prompted you to take the test. Also, I hope you're okay and experience no symptoms.
I believe the vast majority of people are not actually trying to cheat on the test. The point of LFT use is that people carrying a high viral load aka "super spreaders" are very likely to accurately test positive. The people who got false negatives and are asymptomatic are likely to be less dangerous - so long as there is good ventilation
Thankfully none of the amilongas are cancelled. Every indoor pmilonga requires proof of vaccination since we reopened in May. In all this time we recently only had one vaccinated person who tested positive. All those will attended were promptly notified. Everyone got their PCR tests done. All were negative. I would assume half are boosted. At least everyone I have spoken to is. We haven't had any incident of unvaccinated trying to sneak in.
With omicron, early reports suggest booster is effective. I think people who want to dance have higher interest in getting their booster shots.
With omicron, early reports suggest booster is effective. I think people who want to dance have higher interest in getting their booster shots.
TTanguero
Forum Master
I was taking tests before dancing, so about three times a week. But then I went to a tango festival last weekend, and although their precautions were very good*, it did seem sensible to take daily tests for the following week. On Thursday, the organiser notified us that two participants had tested positive, and on Friday I did too.
Was asymptomatic on Friday, and by Saturday had moderate flu symptoms (zero energy, everything aches, bad cough), but still able to sit up in bed and eat. Today it's a bit worse (coughing a lot), so would hate to think what it would be like without the jabs.
*Everyone had to show proof of at least double vaccination, and a negative LFT test taken on the first day but prior to arrival. Everyone was also asked to minimise their contacts for three days prior.
Asking and everyone doing are two very different things.
Despite all the evidence there are still many Covid and
vaccination deniers carrying on regardless, doing
the minimum and finding ways around the rules.
It now seems those rules will have to become tighter.
I can guess which weekend this was with its likeable
organiser but who can be somewhat chaotic. So watching
a brief clip of the dancing (which hasn't improved), the reason
for me not dancing tango at present is very evident.
And what is that I hear you ask? Dancers orientating
their heads such that it is impossible not to inhale a
percentage of their partner's exhaled breath. It's a
Germ Feast (you'll know what I did there if I'm right).
Just chanced upon a couple of recent milongas in BsAs on YouTube. One outside, but sparse, and a few dancers wearing a mask; one inside, again sparse, but more dancers wearing a mask (some not well
). Very different situation, and an unrepresentative sample, but still interesting.Agree, from my personal experience, although I also agree...
But it just takes one. I can wait a few weeks until we know the impact of Omicron.
tangobro
Active Member
New York City - milongas & practicas had reopened with requirements for providing vaccination proof & contact tracing info. Most have now closed again. I had been considering pre registering for an upcoming March 2022 tango festival in Austin, Texas. I'm reconsidering, especially since vax & mask use seems to correlate with political positions in the U.S. & Texas is vaxxed at 56% vs New York at 71%