Taxi Dancers included Colombia Tango Festival

[Bailango]

MiradaMiranda, to flip it around: Have you ever seen a visiting male leader get no dances? That I have seen, they always seem to do just fine.

+1
That was first question to prop in my mind.

While I wouldn't say "always," I have shown up alone and unknown at enough venues far from home that I would say it is easy for a male leader to get dances IME.

Yes indeed. Same with leaders who are visiting here.

 

[Bailango]

Is power of saying no or rejection more than that of asking?

You overlook, or ignore, the cultural, societal, and código issues. **Culturally, invitation was reserved for the male (leader); it wasn't a woman's place to invite. In some traditional códigos that's still the view - and still unacceptable in some cultures.

It is still true in almost all dances today. Swing and fusion being better at followers doing the asking. Majority asking in those is still done by the leaders.

It is easier in tango for followers to turn down an invitation that other dances. Tango followers are not only older but also more snobbish compared to other dances. Old or young, they have more diva like attitude on the dance floor than other dances.

Times have changed, but not necessarily everywhere, and certainly not in some milongas. Also the older group at most milongas will have lived through that culture and retain those customs.

if there is some magical milonga where even one fifth of the followers are willing to ask unknown leader, please tell me where

 

[opendoor]

..Cabaceo works great when you are a visitor..

Don't agree. As a visitor, you should socialize rather than cabeceo. These days, cabeceo is an embarrassing game that should be played with your closest friends. As a stranger, I use more adult methods (see above).

 

[Bailango]

It's evolved that way. Of course it's a 2-way exchange in a sympathetic environment. I have copies of some 'traditional' códigos which say clearly: women do not invite. Women find their way around such códigos in that culture.

Anthropologically some women are able to have their way in most male dominated societies. These are those who are willing to subvert the mores. Think of Jane Austen characters. Then there are those who wield power within the tradition without subverting. In male dominated societies I have seen many women who are able to wield power and influence within their families and communities.

As you said either women find their ways around or are skillful at maintaining a control. In social dancing context that is saying no. Theory of evolution says females try to mate with the most desirable male possible. And males fight with each other to mate with a female. The dance floor hasn’t changed that a lot

 

[Bailango]

Sorry Miradamiranda,
When I entered a milonga as a stranger, I always intuitively knew who to immediately approach: "Hi, I'm Andreas, I'm from Hamburg and I'm just passing through."

Did you say that to the leaders, the followers or the host ?

Did you say that before asking for a dance or after first tanda of the song?

Personally I don’t walk up introduce myself. I will say I am visiting after the first song. Because now it is time for the small talk or the question gets asked if as a visitor you stick out.

This was always followed by a warm welcome, a short conversation and a first tanda.

Oh you already answered.

Then I was constantly passed on and handed through without my doing. This way, I always got to know the core figures of each community.

The way you write sounds more like an abuse

 

[Bailango]

A male friend went to BsAs last year with a group. Quite a few of the women in the group had taxi dancers arranged for them by the group hosts. With all the women around him, he had no need for taxi dancers, but he thought he’d try it out for fun when they offered him a local female taxi dancer. It was an arrangement of a certain number of tandas over a 2- hr period. It had been a great experience. A reality check. Also, he said that it freed him up from the expectations from the women in his group to dance with them, people he normally also dances with at home.

Could he also scoot out to some milongas in his own without the group? He should have tried that. No pressure of asking known ladies but pressure of asking unknown followers in BsAs.

 

[Rabbit]

if there is some magical milonga where even one fifth of the followers are willing to ask unknown leader, please tell me where

Buenos Aires relaxed milongas. I got verbally invited by followers a lot.

 

[opendoor]

Did you say that to the leaders, the followers or the host..

I told this to the for me most important person, whom I quickly tried to grasp intuitively. Sometimes this was the organizer, sometimes the soul of the community, sometimes an influential follower.

Did you say that before asking for a dance or after first tanda..

Always before dancing. Socializing should always precede dancing.

The way you write sounds more like an abuse

I did it my way!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I had one teacher who would say "Leaders, you don't sit down until every lady has danced at least once."

That could make for an exhausting evening. I think some of the gentlemen might like to take a break once in a while.

 

[itwillhappen]

If someone pumps resources into tango, then that's good for tango. And of course, if you're spending a lot of money on an event, you would like to be able to dance reliably.

Personally, I measure my contribution, my positive value, primarily by how many women strive to dance with me. And I usually stay away if I don't see any value.

And now someone is essentially assigning themselves a negative value by paying directly or indirectly for dancing. Difficult.

If an event organizer hires taxi dancers, then they're documenting structural problems with the participant structure. Also difficult.

 

[Miradamiranda]

to flip it around: Have you ever seen a visiting male leader get no dances? That I have seen, they always seem to do just fine.

That’s why I was surprised to hear these guys complaining about how hard it was for them to get dances in Berlin. From a follower’s perspective, the guys have it so much easier.

I have however noticed occasionally, visiting guys sit around most of the evening, just observing, not trying to get dances, not responding to attempts from followers to connect, not socializing, and then finally dancing the last few tandas, surprising us by being obviously good dancers. There could be all sorts of reasons, but I’m sure it was on purpose.

 

[pianistamediano]

I have however noticed occasionally, visiting guys sit around most of the evening, just observing, not trying to get dances, not responding to attempts from followers to connect, not socializing, and then finally dancing the last few tandas, surprising us by being obviously good dancers. There could be all sorts of reasons, but I’m sure it was on purpose.

Whenever that happens to me (just earlier tonight!), I find that it always fits a particular scenario: I have no desire to dance with most of the followers, but there's a few actually good followers I want to dance with, but they are popular because of that dearth of good followers, so I end up not dancing most of the night.

Also, being a DJ, it's very hard to be satisfied by the music at an average milonga. I've lost count of how many times I wanted to dance with a follower for the whole milonga but couldn't because the music was mediocre, and they probably ended up thinking I'm arrogant and stuck up. It's frustrating, and organisers should
know better. But they always invite bad DJs back because they're friends, so...

 

[itwillhappen]

That could make for an exhausting evening. I think some of the gentlemen might like to take a break once in a while.

Perhaps some of the gentlemen would like to pause and dance as much as they like?

 

[opendoor]

That’s why I was surprised to hear these guys complaining about how hard it was for them to get dances in Berlin..

As already explained above, Berlin is a special case. It's only formally a large, colorful scene. People dance there within their circle of acquaintances. I, too, have been rejected several times with the justification: I don't know you at all! And as a stranger, you won't get far with the cabeceo in Berlin. Berlin's followers want to hear the voice of an unknown dancer first. The cabeceo is only accepted for the second tanda (in case your dancing was ok).

 

[itwillhappen]

I had one teacher who would say "Leaders, you don't sit down until every lady has danced at least once."

I've also heard this in reverse, that women are practically forced to lead (or to pay for tandas?) because men aren't (no longer?) fulfilling their "dancing obligations."

Well, I think this is all just a matter of convenience. Everyone pursues their own interests and comes up with appropriate social rules.