Taxi Dancers included Colombia Tango Festival

[Tango Distance]

... is the tango scene so bad/elitist that there's such a large market that people (assuming it's mostly older women) must pay others just to get dances?

IME compared to Swing, Contra, and Blues it is bad/elitist. Not 100%, but I don't think I ever saw someone unasked all night at a Swing or Blues or Contra event. Something hard to quantify is how much blame goes to the tanda system. A Tango leader has around 20 chances to ask followers at a milonga. Swing or Blues that would be around 60. Having said that, I have seen leaders wait as many as 8 tandas to dance with a particular follow... really good visiting followers sit half the night until I danced with her (at a small event)... leaders dancing with the same followers 3 and 4 times but not asking someone having a dry spell...

Yeah but they were talking about festivals, which should be closer to role balanced than random milongas.

I have been to 4 major plus several small festivals. None were even close to role balanced (unlike encuentros).

Am I the only one who has done a taxi dance here?

Never used one directly as never needed to. I have my SO. We dance with others anyway. Also we dance with maestros and teachers we know.

Thankfully I have a wonderful SO tanguera, too. I have danced with visiting teachers from Argentina and many very good followers. What can I say, this experience was over-the-top. I would not say taxi dancer = guaranteed amazing experience, but I was happy it worked out that way for me!

Here's an idea: Use AI with facial recognition. Have it figure out how many tandas people are getting. Have semitaxi goodwill dancers get paid as a function of number of tandas the follower has done in the last hour. Earnings start accruing at maybe the 1 hour point. Here is a cut at a formula:
payout for a tanda = $6 / (number of tandas follower has danced in the last hour + 1).
That would be $6 if the follower has not danced, $3 if she has danced once already, and $2 if twice already. It wouldn't have to be expert dancers, even more advanced students from a studio could make it work -- maybe get class credits instead of money. You could have a cell phone app that showed these goodwill leaders who had not danced. Interesting possible side effect: Snobs who will wait a long time for a perfect dance partner would start getting asked by goodwill dancers, get annoyed they were being grouped with those having trouble getting dances, and start dancing with more people. (In reality, I would hope it was subtle and not obvious who the goodwill dancers were.)

I had one teacher who would say "Leaders, you don't sit down until every lady has danced at least once."

Oxygen Tango has an interesting code of conduct that promotes asking more people to dance:
Values — Oxygen Tango

A note of understanding: Now that I live in the big city, who to ask is definitely a harder algorithm to formulate. You simply cannot dance with everyone, there are too many people. You'd have to integrate across multiple milongas to dance with everyone.

 

[Brummbaer]

Something hard to quantify is how much blame goes to the tanda system.

Interesting that the payment of the 'taxi dancer' might be considered, as I noted earlier, a precursor of the tanda/cortina where the break was the time to pay.

I also googled for taxi dancer and some other dance genres, and came up with a few hits praising the novelty of taxi dancers. Interesting research!

I've also had a FB post pointed out to me where an apparent proponent of very traditional tango (4 song tandas and códigos) was suggesting 2 song tandas (speed tandas) as a possible option.

All of these has been discussed elsewhere already. They have their place in the hierarchy of milongas. However some are very fixed on their true way with their take on 'tradition' and authenticity; Oxygen Tango looks more flexible.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Is it really only a follower problem? Guys, honestly, if you show up alone in a city away from your scene, you know absolutely nobody, how easily do you get to dance? Are there always followers sitting around ironing seats, willing to take a chance without seeing you, nor you seeing them dance?

 

[Tango Distance]

MiradaMiranda, to flip it around: Have you ever seen a visiting male leader get no dances? That I have seen, they always seem to do just fine.

While I wouldn't say "always," I have shown up alone and unknown at enough venues far from home that I would say it is easy for a male leader to get dances IME. For around 15 different locations in 8 different states in the USA, I only had 1 night of no dances. It was a class with a visiting instructor, followed by a milonga. After the class, everyone wanted to sit and order drinks from the bar rather than dance, so I left with 0 dances (not counting the class).

So you can argue I've had 1 failure night out of 15. BTW, I'd rate myself average in Tango dance skill, average looks, and I'm not the most socially smooth person.

There could be another factor in play, I recall this from discussion here. How does a leader get variety? He learns new steps, or maybe makes a mistake that winds up being a fun step. How does a follower get more variety? She dances with different leaders. Given this asymmetry, I wonder if:

• It's in a way less variety to invite a visitor for a leader. Even if the visitor is an awesome follower, she is constrained by what the leader knows how to lead. Unlike his regular partners, she also doesn't know his little idiosynchronicities and to work around them (following what he leads rather than what he wants).
• For a follower, might it be "Oh boy, a visitor! More variety!" MiradaMiranda, I'd appreciate your thoughts -- feel free to disagree!

So maybe visiting leaders are more in demand, beyond the raw gender balance, than visiting followers? Maybe that's part of the popularity of festivals?

 

[Brummbaer]

to flip it around: Have you ever seen a visiting male leader get no dances? That I have seen, they always seem to do just fine....

You overlook, or ignore, the cultural, societal, and código issues. **Culturally, invitation was reserved for the male (leader); it wasn't a woman's place to invite. In some traditional códigos that's still the view - and still unacceptable in some cultures. I can only imagine how that's viewed, and there are multiple perspectives both positive and negative. To paraphrase Frank Zappa: I’m not a female, but there’s a whole lots of times I wish I could say I ain’t male

Times have changed, but not necessarily everywhere, and certainly not in some milongas. Also the older group at most milongas will have lived through that culture and retain those customs.

In most cultures, societies, and traditions, a male, can go anywhere and invite a woman to dance, but it's not considered 'acceptable' by some for a woman to turn up and invite some male. We then get into solos and couples seating. However, with a taxi dancer, you know what you're paying for.

It's usual for a male leader to invite and get a dance if they wish; sadly, it's usual, to find women ironing seats. Some take action.

** just for shorthand I'm going to assume 'traditional' male=leaders and female=followers! Adapt to your own PC perspectives.

 

[TTanguero]

Culturally, invitation was reserved for the male (leader); it wasn't a woman's place to invite

To me, this is misunderstanding the very basis of mirada and cabeceo. In the most traditional of settings, the woman miradas. A leader cannot cabeceo someone who is not looking at him, so it is the woman effectively making the invitation and the man accepting it.

 

[TTanguero]

Guys, honestly, if you show up alone in a city away from your scene, you know absolutely nobody, how easily do you get to dance?

Like TD, I can only think of one* occasion on which I have been unable to dance, in similar circumstances. I would say that it is almost always easy for a leader to get a first dance even when completely unknown, and then once you have been seen on the floor, it is easy to get subsequent dances.

* Technically two, if you count me accidentally going to the highest-level milonga in Buenos Aires, populated by teachers and performers!

 

[Brummbaer]

To me, this is misunderstanding the very basis of mirada and cabeceo.

It's evolved that way. Of course it's a 2-way exchange in a sympathetic environment. I have copies of some 'traditional' códigos which say clearly: women do not invite. Women find their way around such códigos in that culture. Should they need to? Of course, if you spotted some guy you wanted to be with, you'd find some way. We put our more modern interpretation on those.

Then we get to that one of asking permission to invite.

Of course, that gets more complicated nowadays with female leads, male follows, and queer milongas - coupled with a more progressive interpretation and empowered women. Not forgetting many unsympathetic environments with poor lighting and seating arrangements, not forgetting those who don't really want to play that game to get a dance. But, ok, stay happy with your take on it.

Back to the taxi-dancers - plain and simple, straightforward financial transaction to provide a service and, it appears, many women make use of them nowadays. It's evolved from the early days. Must be a market need which they're satisfying. Vamos a bailar

 

[opendoor]

..Guys, honestly, if you show up alone in a city away from your scene, you know absolutely nobody, how easily do you get to dance?

Sorry Miradamiranda, I don't mean to sound arrogant! Concerning your question: right away and as much as I wanted.
When I entered a milonga as a stranger, I always intuitively knew who to immediately approach: "Hi, I'm Andreas, I'm from Hamburg and I'm just passing through." This was always followed by a warm welcome, a short conversation and a first tanda. Then I was constantly passed on and handed through without my doing. This way, I always got to know the core figures of each community.

 

[Miradamiranda]

A male friend went to BsAs last year with a group. Quite a few of the women in the group had taxi dancers arranged for them by the group hosts. With all the women around him, he had no need for taxi dancers, but he thought he’d try it out for fun when they offered him a local female taxi dancer. It was an arrangement of a certain number of tandas over a 2- hr period. It had been a great experience. A reality check. Also, he said that it freed him up from the expectations from the women in his group to dance with them, people he normally also dances with at home.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Sorry Miradamiranda, I don't mean to sound arrogant: as much as I wanted and right away.

Arrogance?? I have no idea what you are referring to. No worries.

I was recently talking to some male friends, raving about how in the Berlin scene I can go in to a place I know nobody and dance non stop with really good dancers. They told me their experience there was the opposite, that the Berlin women are so used to really good local partners that they don’t want to take a risk with an unknown. So these guys who were always in demand in their home scenes suddenly ly found themselves in a position quite different.

 

[opendoor]

..So these guys ...found themselves in a position quite different.

But that's a completely different story. These guys only have themselves to blame. As a stranger, you simply shouldn't sit in the corner of a dimly lit milonga with a stern expression for 30 minutes, only to then cabeceo the top followers from the hip!

When I enter an unfamiliar place as a stranger, I do everything to be no longer a stranger!

And regarding Berlin, which admittedly is a difficult place: if you want to dance there, you can easily connect in advance via Facebook. Then you'll already be sitting at the table with the important people, which always makes for a good evening.

 

[Rabbit]

I was recently talking to some male friends, raving about how in the Berlin scene I can go in to a place I know nobody and dance non stop with really good dancers. They told me their experience there was the opposite, that the Berlin women are so used to really good local partners that they don’t want to take a risk with an unknown. So these guys who were always in demand in their home scenes suddenly ly found themselves in a position quite different.

I think a lot of it is to do with projecting confidence (can be faked) and/or having the aura of a skilled dancer (can't be faked).

On the other hand, if you believe that the local dancers are better than yourself and that you aren't really needed, it will become true.

 

[tangoing]

Apparently the kizomba scene is testing out taxi dancers and it’s causing a lot of controversy with arguments on both sides

Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[Bailango]

Is it really only a follower problem? Guys, honestly, if you show up alone in a city away from your scene, you know absolutely nobody, how easily do you get to dance?

Coming from a slightly leader heaving city known for probable being most snobbish, dancing elsewhere has been much easier.

I have danced as a visitor at many places. One thing that makes it easier to dance as a visitor is you have no baggage or history with any followers. As a leader therefore you are more free to cabaceo anyone.

I see visiting leaders find it easier to dance compared to visiting followers in my home city.

It reflects my experience when traveling and visiting. Except for one instance in Barcelona (small milonga with 8 to 10 people), it has been delight dancing as a visitors. The larger the milonga the easier it is. I have also danced at small milongas in Amsterdam, and else where. It was easy to get dances. I have danced in Barcelona a few times over the years and I always enjoyed dancing there. I found NYC to be easy to dance too.

Cabaceo works great when you are a visitor. I remember visiting a few milongas where layout of the room and crowd factor made it almost impossible to cabaceo. Everyone’s back was towards you, or you had to turn back and look.

I am guessing I must have danced in twenty cities. Almost all of them outside the USA.

In some places there is factor of cliquishness in some part of the room. As a visitor it is easy to ignore them and ask others.

I dance other dances too when traveling. Tango is more ‘snobbish’ and unwelcoming when compared to others. I am sure you know that from your salsa days. The fact it is easier for my to dance when visiting doesn’t negate the fact that tango community and social dancing has a factor of snobbishness that’s absent in other social dances.

Are there always followers sitting around ironing seats, willing to take a chance without seeing you, nor you seeing them dance?

I ask the same way when visiting as at home. Haven’t had problem asking good followers when visiting. Can’t tell if they saw me or not.

I take chances with those I haven’t seen. How else to find new good partners.