Teachers who dance socially and those who don't, and their students

[tangoing]

Definitely.

We've had a major influx of younger dancers here since we were allowed back on the floor after the (worst of the) pandemic. To invoke my point #2 above, mirada-cabeceo is another thing that feels to them like veterans adding artificial difficulty to maintain an advantage. But unlike navigation, musicality, technique, vocabulary, etc., this is not a technical advantage – it's a social one. And younger people in the prime of their social lives arrive with a real advantage outside of tango's rarified codes, starting with being for the most part slimmer, fitter, and better-looking. So, they can and do push back, and the biggest pushback I've noticed is that they just toss mirada-cabeceo in the trash, and invite who they want how they want, end of discussion.

I have suffered from this going on around me. There are some dancers I simply cannot cabeceo because they don't even know why I'm looking their way . . . and anyway, they have a big group of fellow dancers who invite them "normally," like in nearly every other style of dance. But this doesn't mean I hate it. It just means I have to either learn a subsidiary skillset to invite that subset of dancers, or ignore that subset of dancers. Doing the latter might strike traditionalists as a good tough-love correction, but it also militates against retention and chokes off recruitment, because at first glance it seems not traditional, but merely snobby.

Idk about that sentiment here, I give some leeway to beginner/intermediate dancers, and I’m also in my 30s myself. But for intermediate+ dancers I expect them to know it, but maybe the issue is more that the cabeceo exchange always feel so one sided with them, as opposed to a mutual cabeceo / one where we look for each other (I get that exchange a lot from the older followers).
I’ve danced in a bunch of other countries/cities and either proper cabeceo works or it’s more just direct asking, not this grey area which I find annoying.

 

[JournalInTime]

I frequently dance in countries where I do not speak the language [...] I agree the local culture can become the dominant communication and enables you to discard the "outdated" cabaceo but at least for me and anyone who travels this is a mistake. I want to be able to dance when I travel [...] But if you speak another language, but not English, and never travel outside your home city why bother to learn everyone speaks the same language as you.

I think this is a very interesting point.

There is an ongoing debate – sparked in part by social-media posts by some influential people in tango – regarding the differences in perceptions and experiences between those for whom tango is festivals and travel, and those for whom tango is local milongas. It's couched more in the language of economics than culture, but it's there.

Anyway, I'm a firm believer in "tango is at home." I think that tango could continue and local milongas could exist without festivals and tango travel, but that festivals and tango travel couldn't exist without local milongas to continue tango. And no, I don't travel. So, when somebody says, "When in Rome," I think, "Well, I live there 24/7."

But were I to travel . . . yeah, I speak English and French, but after that, I'd be out of luck. It'd be useful to be able to invite people regardless of local language or culture. The question, I suppose, is what is the extent to which visitors rather than locals are dancing at local milongas? If it's "almost never," then it's probably a big ask to require a local scene that doesn't use mirada-cabeceo to use it. If it's "a lot," then it's reasonable to ask that.

A natural corollary of which is that people who travel and do festivals seem to have their own culture, distinct from the local one wherever the festival is, that innately spans languages and regional cultures. So, to them, mirada-cabeceo is a must.

Where it gets interesting is when people in the "mainly a local" and "mainly a traveler" groups meet, and one, the other, or both groups "weaponize" their insistence on their preferred invitation method. This is a passive-aggressive way to set up an us-vs.-them social hierarchy, where each group deems itself higher up the food chain than the other.

It comes from the past. It's a 'relic' because it had another justification - about 'saving face' if turned down. That's no longer relevant today. Other cultures and dances manage to invite - and have fun. I don't object either if a woman comes over to invite me for a tanda.

Yeah, I think that today, if "saving face" worries you, you're too fragile to live in this world of polarizing politics, shock media, cellphone cameras in every hand, social media posts on utter trivialities, and general information overload with close to zero privacy. Our age is one of democratized media and hyper-interconnectedness. Every mistake you make and ever embarrassment you suffer is most likely either on camera or being gossiped about on some app. If you can't take being visibly turned down for a tanda, your problems are bigger than the milonga.

But, as the good book, says: when in Rome...

And as a mostly not-traveler, I think "That's where I wake up in the morning and rest my head at night." So, my thoughts and opinions are definitely biased toward the local.

Idk about that sentiment here, I give some leeway to beginner/intermediate dancers, and I’m also in my 30s myself. But for intermediate+ dancers I expect them to know it, but maybe the issue is more that the cabeceo exchange always feel so one sided with them, as opposed to a mutual cabeceo / one where we look for each other (I get that exchange a lot from the older followers).

To be clear: I do know it, and I try to use it. But I cannot ignore my local experience, which is that even the most advanced, longest-term dancers are starting to shrug it off and invite any old way. Especially them, to be honest.

The other night, toward the end of the evening, there weren't many people left at all. I was obligated to stay to help close the place, but I was available to dance. The people who remained sat together, danced together, returned to sitting together, ad nauseum. There was zero chance of me getting a dance because nobody was inviting in any way but in eyes-locked conversation.

I'd fault this, except that I've been there. I've been the person near the end, seated with a preferred partner, mostly closing the night with "implicit invitations." I can't truthfully say whether this was at the expense of other people who'd have liked to dance with one of us, because I was in a conversation when not dancing, and not scanning the room.

I’ve danced in a bunch of other countries/cities and either proper cabeceo works or it’s more just direct asking, not this grey area which I find annoying.

I agree that the grey area is annoying. Where it gets extra-annoying is when the exact same people insist on the cabeceo from some people but accept other invitations from other people. That's because it sets up an unnecessary social hierarchy that excludes certain people. The other night, one of the women was someone who outright told me one time that she'd prefer a cabeceo, to which I said, "Got it – thanks!" Then she spent most of the evening being invited by other means. Yes, that was annoying to me.

 

[brujo]

I don't agree with the cabeceo/mirada being a relic. I frequently dance in countries where I do not speak the language - with a cabaceo I don't need to. Also very useful in crowded events where you can see the person but it would be difficult to make your way through the crowd to get near enough to speak.

To me the relic part feels like the “saves face when told no” aspect of the interaction. As a asker you still feel like crap when rejected so it’s a bit unclear what this is trying to solve. It kinda makes sense when there is a chaperone next to the person asked but in the modern dance floor it doesn’t calibrate.

You can as easily ask someone to dance nonverbally by extending a hand out. Or from a distance make it super clear using hand gestures - the one I see used a lot is forming a floor with one hand and having the other one simulate legs in a v shape ( it’s the ASL sign for dancing - Dance ).

 

[Brummbaer]

either proper cabeceo works or it’s more just direct asking, not this grey area which I find annoying.

I find the environment is rarely conducive to cabeceo/mirada working. The 'grey' area comes from attempting to make it work - the 'walkaceo' - you walk over (because of lack of line of sight, poor lighting or other situations - even known to need spectacles on to recognise a cabeceo), then, when close enough to ask verbally and when noticed, do a cabeceo. The 'chateceo' is a more interesting deviation - come over and chat during previous tanda or cortinas, then invite by 'cabeceo'. A variant is to come over and chat to my wife, and expect an invite, or invite me. Or to grab a seat nearby to adjust shoes, then chat... I suppose there's also what one might call the 'drinkaceo' - arrange a tanda whilst getting a drink. The fundamental is that the seating arrangements are rarely conducive, but people feel obliged to acknowledge some código.

Whatever! If people want to play the game, I'll join in. If they want to be sociable and just invite verbally, that's ok. The worst aspect is elite establishments who wish to insist on 'tradition', without explanation, and discourage newbies. Cabeceo/mirada was the means for the man to avoid embarrassment at being turned down inviting the girl he fancied when she was with her chaperone. The girl was the objective; not primarily the dance. We're long past that. The dance is the objective and, in most situations, that 'advanced' follower isn't going to accept a tanda from a newbie leader, nor is the beginner follower going to be invited by an 'intermediate' leader (unless she has other assets). You're not 'advanced' unless you can dance with some beginner! Unfortunately that's life, so we all find some way around to get what we wanted. I'm just grateful that the milongas where we started were friendly, and better followers invited me, or accepted my invitation.

But none of this applies if you're with a 'group', or there's some distribution of friends and acquaintances, and you move around. It's really just left over for solos who aren't in that group to pick what they can.

I give some leeway to beginner/intermediate dancers, and I’m also in my 30s myself.

I presume you didn't mean to equate physical years with AT experience?

 

[JournalInTime]

the one I see used a lot is forming a floor with one hand and having the other one simulate legs in a v shape ( it’s the ASL sign for dancing - Dance ).

Cool! Never knew this. And yes, I've seen it done. I learned something today.

 

[JournalInTime]

I find the environment is rarely conducive to cabeceo/mirada working.

This is my biggest personal issue with it, even though I do my best to use it.

Certain Influential Tango Pundits claim that poor eyesight is also a poor excuse, and that there's always a way, but that's traditionalist rubbish. When the lights are low, there's crowding around the edges of the floor, there are obstacles like columns and (in L-shaped rooms) corners, and so on, my terrible vision (I joke that glasses make me less blind) permits me few successful invitations. My honest opinion is that insisting on mirada-cabeceo treats the real, physical problem of bad eyesight as less important than the utterly imaginary social problem of embarrassment. Like, get over yourselves, darlings . . . I'm doing my best over here with the bottoms of Coke bottles on my face.

Whatever! If people want to play the game, I'll join in. If they want to be sociable and just invite verbally, that's ok.

Also to be totally honest: I love to be invited. As a leader (and yes, man), it makes my entire evening when a follower (yes, usually a woman) walks up to me and says, "Let's dance." It sends me the message that my dance skills are – at least to onlookers – sufficiently not-terrible to merit attention. It saves me the hassle of blindly squinting (and usually inviting the wrong person). It shares the burden of social and emotional labor more fairly. And no, I don't reject people . . . at worst, I say (truthfully), "Not this piece of music, will you wait for Fresedo?", or, "I already promised So-and-So a tanda."

The worst aspect is elite establishments who wish to insist on 'tradition', without explanation, and discourage newbies.

Yeah, and this is why I hesitate to be too grumpy about floorcraft or too wistful about the cabeceo. I am fully aware that there are veteran dancers who feel that learning these codes is part of the initiation, but it's one thing to teach the codes and another to be harsh about them. The latter is horrible for recruitment and retention.

But none of this applies if you're with a 'group', or there's some distribution of friends and acquaintances, and you move around.

And that's the thing. I have a group, and lots of friends and acquaintances, because I'm not just a local but a regular (the older South American women insist on calling me a "milonguero," which makes me uneasy). But guess what? The younger, newer dancers do, too! They show up with half their class. Several groups of intermediates do private prácticas and also show up en masse. In fact, the only loners are people from Back in the Day who had no social circle then and still have no social circle now, which isn't a ringing endorsement of how wonderful they are.

I often speculate that those who most insist on mirada-cabceo fall into two principal groups: Those who really mean ". . . if I don't know you," who are using it to sort the milonga into social classes, and those who don't have groups of friends, who are using it as a sort of trump card to invite people who'd avoid them for being awful. There are, of course, traditionalists for tradition's sake, but they aren't anything like a majority or even a large minority; they're a few people who argue about which version of a Biagi tune they like best, and who talk about Petróleo like he was their buddy.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Cool! Never knew this. And yes, I've seen it done. I learned something today.

I’ve seen it too! Makes sense. In fact I remember once dancing with a guy with a cochlear implant. I didn’t know what it was, and I didn’t notice it till after the tanda. I remember telling a friend I had just danced with someone new to me and that it was the most musical dance of the milonga. I pointed him out. “Oh the guy with the cochlear implant.” she said. Afterwards I noticed he was using sign language with his wife from a fair distance. We hadn’t talked except saying our names. The cabeceo and the dance took care of all the communication we needed.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Some aspects are, some aren’t.
The navigation is atrocious here (the prev discontinued friday milonga literally had to tape lines on the floor to help with navigation (and it worked!))
A lot of the younger followers sorta dont look for cabeceos unless they’re point blank ones, which makes it so that style of cabeceo semi become the norm depending on the place.
Other than that, social tango is taught here.

Couldn't agree more about floorcraft, one of my pet peeves. However, I'm not sure that's an integral part of the training or the first thing one should learn. It does take a while to get acclimated. The problem is that many (leaders) never study long enough (classes, workshops) to be told how floorcraft works. They simply jump into the pond (and splash water over everyone else). And it doesn't take that many people to mess up the line of dance.

Cabeceos, I don't know. You're probably correct about younger dancers or new dancers. (And if they're with friends, they don't even need to bother since they get asked to dance repeatedly.) I don't have a solution for that other than being told about it in a workshop setting.

LOL. The blue lines were taped on the floor by Robin. And the floorcraft there was pretty good as a result. I think it was one of the best things he did and I wish other hosts would do the same.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

So, the insistence that not only you adapt to music you probably don't hear anywhere else, using movements you might never have seen before (e.g., people often find anything in cross system to be "bizarre"), but also do so down an imaginary line with lanes, feels to newcomers like veterans adding artificial difficulty to maintain an advantage over them.

And yet, somehow, miraculously, we all managed to figure it out. And stayed around to enjoy it!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

That nicely sums up part of what I've been saying! Mirada-cabeceo just doesn't mean anything to people who've come from clubs, other dance styles, and casual freestyle dance, who are accustomed to walking right up to the person they want to dance with.

It's not rocket science. Most beginners adapt quickly once taught. Some figure it out on their own. Some may hear it from a teacher. Also, most beginners here are young but not that young. They do understand that tango is not like other dances. And if they stick around, they're usually willing to figure out the finer points of social tango.