The Booty Misconception
- Thread starter TomTango
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Tagontarian
New Member
If I understand your use of word 'step projection', then you are negating what I said. Let me restate - some dancers are so focused on the 'chest projection' that they are less responsive or at loss with 'step projection'. Or in other words they don't understand 'step projection'.
opendoor
Forum Master
Damn!
Can't beat your logic, perhaps I only read the first few words. Sorry TTarian!
I guess I'm one of 'they' because this is a term that I don't ever remember hearing here in AT PDX. And I'm not exactly a newbie.
So, would those of you who are in the know elucidate ('splain it)?
opendoor
Forum Master
Think this thread already is very long, so I started a new one concerning projection
http://www.dance-forums.com/threads/step-projection-proyección-del-paso.47192
He said milonguero style, not dance. It's not about a specific person.
Susana Miller coined the term. Maybe you honestly don't know what the term Milonguero Style means (although I doubt it). In any case, most of us do know what (more or less is meant by it). To the extent you are confused by the term, or dislike the term, your questions and comments might be better addressed to her.
My only confusion is about why you decided to write such
a personally slanted post now, some time after that part
of the discussion and which actually seems to misinterpret
what I have said.
Milonguero style was a marketing invention.
Reading my previous posts would make that clear.
We weren't discussing this with Susana Miller and
I wasn't aware she was present on this forum!
However now in BsAs socially the term milonguero/a
is a term of endearment, of praise even. But it's much
more general than the specific teaching of one teaching
couple. It's applied to those dancers who dance
unflinchingly in an parallel embrace, chest to chest
as one with all the necessary twisting or spiral movements
made within the body, whether man or woman.But that
is not the only criterion, it's how it feels which is the
final decider and that's the intangible.
It is the opposite of "dancing in a block".
Maybe it is remarked upon because such a dance seems
to be disappearing but it is still a mark of recognition
of a good social tango dancer.
Oh, and a further point on the side.
Nationality doesn't seem to matter to portenos,
if you can dance you are a dancer, if you dance
chest to chest you can be a milonguero.
Speaking as a foreigner it often seems to be a welcome
surprise to them. It's only foreigners who seem to think
that only argentines dance so-called milonguero style.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
To be a milonguero seems to be what happens if you are talented, dance tango a lot, never attend a tango lesson, enjoy fatty food with good wine at a party. So the milonguero's style will will inevitably differ a lot. 
And I think nowadays for most people the difference between "close embrace" and "miloguero style" is bare academic, the mark got diluted.
And I think nowadays for most people the difference between "close embrace" and "miloguero style" is bare academic, the mark got diluted.
I'll take that as a parody with a grain of truthTo be a milonguero seems to be what happens if you are talented, dance tango a lot, never attend a tango lesson, enjoy fatty food with good wine at a party. So the milonguero's style will will inevitably differ a lot.
although by no means applicable to everyone.
That may be the case because too many people,
essentially teachers, have used and abused and
even redefined the term for their own ends.
Its original meaning is already lost but I was
referring to how (some) social dancers apply
it in Buenos Aires. After all it is a BsAs term.
Finally, not attending tango lessons does not
mean no improvement or even no learning.
But the basics can be taught although the
self-development probably cannot.
Nothing can replace much practice.
opendoor
Forum Master
You are bravely fighting a loosing battle. Although the terms milonguero and milonguero style were coined in BsAs the porteños never adopted these labels. In history milonguero was an epithet for night-owls and the in-crowd, and milonguero style was synonymous with low dancing skills. Nowadays the porteños still avoid these terms. They merchandize and export their tango as "tango pista", or "villa urquiza". Furthermore, no exponent of the (today´s) milonguero style ever sat in the panel of judges or even won a championship. Let the word rest in peace, let it be kind of folklore.
I'm not fighting any kind of battle, just reporting
from "the front".
The "low dancing skills" was only the opinion of those
who thought their more "professional" (eye-catching and
crowd pleasing?) commercial style was better. It was
better only in that it earned them more money than the
tango salon of the time ever could. It was just opinion(s).
Or more rudely called by some social dancers, "tango for export".
But the meanings of words (of any language) change
over time.
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
“it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean
so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty,
“which is to be master—that's all.”
Lewis Carroll (1832-98)
The word is a natural Spanish derivation from Milonga,
it isn't going to be allowed to rest anytime soon.
Osvaldo Cartery won the championship (somehow),
in 2004 I think. The championship is irrelevant to real
social collaborative social dancing, it's very relevant
to commercial income-earning interests.
Oscar Casas, who has many links back to the apparently sleazy
milonguero days, today advertises teaching Neo Milonguero,
whatever that is, which will be whatever he is making it.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
I think here "Milonguero" names someone who is quite well adapted to social dancing. Would someone like to persuade me that in the "Golden Age" there was such an academic and sophisticated approach to tango like nowadays? Posture diagrams on the wall explaining the importance of the rib cage for a proper posture?
Today's milongueros will just have well adapted to foreign expectations somehow.And there will hopefully forever be young ones that challenge the old bulls - one attack wave after the other: on a technical, conditional, social or ethical level that settled persons can't easily follow. Or tango will be dead soon.
So for me there is no better or worse, just a yesterday and a tomorrow.
And sometime is goes cyclic - tomorrow looks like yesterday.
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John isn't fighting a battle, but I find myself at odds with people who think certain people are "good" because they look good and have done "well" in competitions.
Also, I really wonder if all if the current obsession with anatomy and technique, an
Also, I really wonder if all if the current obsession with anatomy and technique, an
isn't lost on most of us; even though I am somewhat guilty of going there, too.
It's the same like in science. First there were greek philosophers, then there was Newton, then Einstein and others. First theories were simple and easy to understand, just it turned out they can't explain everything, so people invented more complex ones. Problem is - more accurate it is, harder to understand and to use by most people
Just like everything else in our ordinary life - including dancing